KEENs on a MAP07?

[fabian]

Hi all,

as you might know, sectors with tag 666 will undergo certain actions when specific monsters are killed on a map. While it is possible to place Keen monsters on any map in Doom 2 to trigger such action, MAP07 is hard-coded to Mancubi (and Arachnotrons for tag 667). However, the actions triggered by Keens and Mancubi are very different: While the death of all Keens will open the tagged sector as a door, the death of all Mancubi will execute lowerFloorToLowest on it.

Does anybody know of a WAD which has Keens instead of Mancubi to trigger tag 666 in MAP07 -- or maybe even a map that has both types of monsters to trigger different behaviour depending on which was killed first?

[plums]

I could be quite wrong, but I vaguely seem to recall a Doom 1 map that put the KeenDie codepointer on a Cyberdemon in E1M8 with Dehacked, so that you need to kill the Barons of Hell and the Cyberdemon to beat the map. I'm definitely not mistaking uac_dead.wad for this, but I might be mis-remembering the details about it, or maybe it was a ZDoom wad.

Anyhow, such a thing is possible, if rare. Since you were asking in Doom Editing, did you want a proof-of-concept map? Or was it just curiosity?

[fabian]

plums said:

Anyhow, such a thing is possible, if rare. Since you were asking in Doom Editing, did you want a proof-of-concept map? Or was it just curiosity?

I want to extend the SPECHITS cheat in Crispy to also trigger tag 666/667 events. But since the results differ from map to map and then even from monster to monster, it felt better to ask.

[TimeOfDeath]

ESP map07 has cybers with the keendie codepointer and also mancubus. It wasn't designed for map07, it just worked out that way. A boom demo recorded on it when it was map01 still stayed in sync after it was changed to map07 (the tag666 sector was already surrounded by the lowest floor, so didn't move when the mancubus were dead).

[vdgg]

TimeOfDeath replied and no mention of Eternal Doom? It has keens on MAP07 (and mancubi, but afterwards if I remember).

[fabian]

plums said:

a Doom 1 map that put the KeenDie codepointer on a Cyberdemon

Oh, KeenDie in Doom 1, I didn't even consider that.

vdgg said:

TimeOfDeath replied and no mention of Eternal Doom? It has keens on MAP07 (and mancubi, but afterwards if I remember).

So, will killing the Mancubi lower the floor that has been opened as a door earlier by killing the Keens?

[vdgg]

No, door opening is a ceiling movement. In eternall the floor level is the same as adjacent sectors. But if you changed for example sector 538 properties to floor and ceiling height 200,200, it should work. PS there is only one mancubus on all skill levels, so it's easy to test with iddqd, idclip and idkfa :)

[TimeOfDeath]

I remembered about eternall after posting :) I don't remember where the mancubus is in it though.

Anyway, here's an easy test map with mancubus and keen on map07 that do different things: mankeen.wad

[vdgg]

Haha, cool map. However, I cheated, gave the player BFG, killed them both at once and broke the map (only the door part worked). No big deal, you can break the original MAP07 much easier: if last two arachnos die at the same time...

[fabian]

Thank you very much, that map is exactly what I was looking for. However, it turns out that I can only trigger one of both possible movements, because sec->specialdata is set for the sector when activated the first time and then that sector is ignored in subsequent triggers of tag 666. I believe it is safe, though, to give Mancubus-style actions precedence on MAP07 and Keen-style actions else.

Edit: If I cheat myself the BFG and kill both enemies at once, only the lower part of the wall is lowered - which corresponds to the Mancubus-triggered action. I find myself confirmed.