the meanest mapping trick in an IWAD

[fabian]

What do you consider the meanest mapping trick that id has unleashed upon us?

In my opinion it is in MAP15 where you have to re-enter a teleporter spawning point in order to reach the red key. I am sure that in 1994 for many people the game ended here.

The platform in MAP30 being just a tad bit too high to allow for aiming into the Icon's brain comes as a close second.

[geekmarine]

Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of meanest. I can't decide between the inescapable slime pits of E1M3 and the maze that opens up in E1M2. The slime pits are especially cruel because they pretty much mean instant death, and it's something that can throw off even experienced players because (a) all it takes is one misstep, and (b) everyone knows that most slime pits have a teleporter out or something, so inescapable death traps might be a surprise even for someone familiar with Doom. However, the maze in E1M2 is cruel, not because it's an instant death trap or anything, but it's dark and disorienting, complete with flashing lights everywhere. While it's no big deal now, encountering that so early in the game, as someone still getting used to navigating in a FPS game, it can be downright infuriating.

[plums]

I don't remember the maze in E1M2 as being infuriating ever, more just interesting/mysterious. Though it took me ages to find the secret stash of armour bonuses in the route to the chainsaw.

Slime pits though, I guess those are pretty mean. Maybe meant to teach the player to save often? :p How about the lowering platforms in the exit branch of Tricks & Traps (Doom 2 MAP08)?

Also, if you're counting all iwads, then surely Plutonia has its share of nasty tricks.

[MFG38]

I'd say the moving platform in Doom 2 MAP30. Not using mouselook, it can be incredibly infuriating to get the timing right. Even today, after 6 years and numerous playthroughs, it frustrates me.

[joe-ilya]

The final slimepit in MAP24 of doom.

The icon is easy, I don't get what's hard.

[ASD]

-The middle finger part in E3M2 with the lost soul trap.
-The low crushers in E4M7.
-The multiplayer trap in E4M9.
-Starting of MAP22 used to be tough.
-MAP23 having PEs mixed with barrels and monsters.
-The secret switch in Heretic E1M6 that took me weeks to figure out.

[Patrol1985]

I'll state my usual:

Having to open an unmarked secret wall on map19 in order to proceed through the level as intended.

Although I agree that reentering the teleporter on map15 was also sort of "unfair" and puzzling. If I remember correctly I discovered it by sheer luck and accident. I might have as well wondered through the level for a few more hours in frustration.

[Dragonsbrethren]

If we're going with just id's maps, I think I'd agree with the lowering exit platforms in MAP08.

[dew]

Dragonsbrethren said:

If we're going with just id's maps, I think I'd agree with the lowering exit platforms in MAP08.

This. Such a fuck you moment, everything is laughable in comparison.

[Memfis]

How about the impossible to find MAP28 exit room? You got so far into the game and all just for a level that you can't even finish.

[durian]

Possibly not the meanest, but one which can really irritate me nonetheless: Map 27, whereby the lights are totally killed if the player steps into the light-field near the arachno-trap. That said, I think the "step in light, map changes" gimmick is otherwise used to neat effect here - it would be nice to see the idea implemented/developed elsewhere.

[Belial]

dew said:

This. Such a fuck you moment, everything is laughable in comparison.

Yup, my "fav" as well.

[scifista42]

plums said:

Also, if you're counting all iwads, ...

TNT MAP30's first puzzle! :)

[Obsidian]

Impossible Mission and it's little elevator that sandwiches you between 4 Chaingunners. GOOD TIMES!

[Devalaous]

Theres also the immortal chaingunners on at least two Plutonia maps, chaingunners with hidden archviles behind them. One of the levels eventually crushes the archviles, but the other map? Chaingunners that are ALWAYs there sniping.

[Fuzzball]

Pits you can't get out of I guess are pretty mean, seeing as it's something frowned upon often in mapping.
I can't remember everything about the main IWADS off the top of my head though...

[Belial]

Ragnor said:

One of the levels eventually crushes the archviles, but the other map?

IIRC there's a recent demo that shows the map27 archie can be killed.

[ASD]

durian said:

Possibly not the meanest, but one which can really irritate me nonetheless: Map 27, whereby the lights are totally killed if the player steps into the light-field near the arachno-trap. That said, I think the "step in light, map changes" gimmick is otherwise used to neat effect here - it would be nice to see the idea implemented/developed elsewhere.

Marswar's MAP32 comes to mind.

Obsidian said:

Impossible Mission and it's little elevator that sandwiches you between 4 Chaingunners. GOOD TIMES!

Those chaingunners had good times spawntrapping. Also, what makes the mission impossible in coop is the blue key room with the cybers and barons...

[Keyboard_Doomer]

Belial said:

IIRC there's a recent demo that shows the map27 archie can be killed.

Don't you know by any chance where could I find this demo? I know that it's possible to kill that Arch-vile with splash damage but you need A LOT of rockets for it. Not sure if there's enough rockets in the whole level to do it.

EDIT: Just tried it with cheats - needed a little over 60 rockets, according to doomwiki there's 61 rockets in the level, twice that on ITYTD. Seems plausible.

[Memfis]

I suppose he's talking about stx-Vile's demo from here: http://doomedsda.us/wad946m227.html

[Keyboard_Doomer]

Thanks, Memfis. Heh, didn't even think of the fact it could be on DSDA along with a convenient description :)

stx-Vile found a clever way how to make the Arch-vile take more splash damage. It's so quick now that it just seems like this was always the legit way how to kill him.
Also, I had no idea stx-Vile has so recent demos :O

[duh]

[Jaws In Space]

How about teleporting into that tiny room surrounded by imps in the middle of The Factory.

[geekmarine]

Oh, I hadn't even thought about the pit in MAP08. Of course, by that point, I had already grown incredibly wary of slime pits, and it was a while before I finally slipped up and discovered how evil that one truly was. But yeah, the more I think about it, yeah, that's a trap that really does give you the middle finger, especially being right before the exit.

[Graf Zahl]

Hiding the way to the blue key in E3M6 behind a secret door. Took me forever to find out how to complete this map on higher skills.

MAP15 was also nasty. The entire path to the red key was quite unintuitive.

[40oz]

In MAP09: The Pit, there's a part with the rocket launcher where after you pick it up, a monster closet loaded with shotgun guys pops up. Fortunately, the rocket launcher lets you take em out pretty quick before they dish out too much damage. Go to pick up the dropped shotguns, and an even bigger monster closet with like 30 chaingun guys opens up behind you! Nice one, asshole!

EDIT: I was also gonna mention the inescapable toxin in E1M3 Toxin Refinery, and the sinking platforms in the MAP08: Tricks and Traps exit, The 4-imp trap in MAP11: The Factory, and Infinitely resurrecting chaingun guys in MAP15: The Twilight but they were already mentioned.

Great thread idea btw

[Devalaous]

geekmarine said:

Oh, I hadn't even thought about the pit in MAP08. Of course, by that point, I had already grown incredibly wary of slime pits, and it was a while before I finally slipped up and discovered how evil that one truly was. But yeah, the more I think about it, yeah, that's a trap that really does give you the middle finger, especially being right before the exit.

On the PSX version you cant even save before doing it :{

[mrthejoshmon]

In my years of playing Doom, here are the worst ones (In order of fuckery and game):

Ultimate Doom:

- The secret exit to "Fortress of Mystery" in Ultimate Doom's E2M5, what a dick move (Good luck on Nightmare! mode)
- The Barons looking at you right away in E2M9
- E4M1's NIN Easter egg is brutal
- E1M3 and its pits were such fun as a kid (though the PSX version I played at the time only had one though)
- E3M9 is an arse to get to and an arse to survive
- E4M2 has a rough start when you first play it

Doom 2:

- MAP08 and its fuckery
- MAP28 in general
- MAP10 is a pain at the start, easy after that
- MAP13 when it teleports you in front of enemies multiple times

TNT:

- Impossible 100% kills on some maps
- Impossible MAP31 without fixing it with TNT31
- MAP30 and its teleport bullshit
- Mount Pain can also go fuck itself.

Plutonia:



Amongst a lot of other things...

[VGA]

Jaws In Space said:

How about teleporting into that tiny room surrounded by imps in the middle of The Factory.

Yeah, that's low.

[Vermil]

Ragnor said:

On the PSX version you cant even save before doing it :{

There is a trigger just beyond the doorway that opens a teleport in the north room, that teleports you straight into the exit room. The trigger can be crossed to lower the teleport without having to step onto the first lowering platform.

It's probably meant for co-op and obviously unlikely to be noticed on a first play through, but if one repeatedly has issues crossing that room, it is an option.

There's another teleport opposite it, for the Red Key room.