Raymoohawk's sprite edits

[Maz Hades]

Here's the robozam:

How's she look?

[raymoohawk]

looks good to me. wich of the powerups are you intending it to be? (might be a good idea to have drawings of the four designs ready before spriting)

[Maz Hades]

She's the basic one. It'd help if people could throw ideas at me for how I could make the different ones represent the powerups they give :D

[fabian]

Catoptromancy said:

Cartoon-like cute aliens just do not fit at all with the theme of almost all the other resources. I do like that alien with the two fireballs, it could be menacing enough to replace the lost soul.

I agree! The new power-up sprites look childish and cheesy, I don't like them at all. Frankly, I cannot believe that they have already been commited.

Just because Freedoom takes place on a Lizard planet (have I missed something?!) does not mean that now *everything* has to be a lizard. At least I don't find the idea of picking up a lizard doll for invisibility or full health very convincing.

Regarding "constructive criticism", please turn the power-ups into *things* again. Lizard eggs if you like. But please nothing that resembles a living creature, thanks!

[raymoohawk]

i dont see the problem its just four items, four lizards doesnt make everything lizards, also they dont have to be cute, the new sprites can be cool looking, lets wait and see

[Maz Hades]

I have trouble reigning in my creativity, I can't just make some generic pickup item. If you guys have such a problem with the current designs, you make something. I'm sick of people complaining but not providing anything to replace what they don't like.

[raymoohawk]

lets try to keep the disscussion calm, we dont want this to get post helled

heres an idea. i'll try tossing together a reptile that looks closer to the monsters im working on, and if im unable to do something that satisfies all parties, we can revert to the spheres, does that sound good?

[Maz Hades]

Good thinking batman

[robotdog1]

I don't really like the lizard-esque power-ups either. And I don't quite understand why the Zamanthytes we're being forced on FreeDoom in the first place. They literally seem like they came out of nowhere. Maybe they could be a good concept in some other creative piece, but not so well here. And it seems the community turn-out has been negative so far.

[raymoohawk]

at least let me try, as i said if i am unable to make a design that most people like ill drop the idea, but i want to give the idea a shot first. just because the first attempt turned out too cute, that doesnt mean it cant turn out well on a second try. people didnt want the updated torches at first either

[chungy]

Freedoom has lacked an art direction for its whole life, now that it's finally getting one, let's at least see how it pans out before dismissing this one entirely. :-)

[robotdog1]

That's fine. I just felt I wanted to pitch in my 2 cents on the matter. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how things turn out. I do like all the other sprites you've done so far though, including those torches.

[Nikita_Sadkov]

So the FreeDoom's art direction now is Doom meets Turok meets Unreal?

[fabian]

Maz Hades said:

I'm sick of people complaining but not providing anything to replace what they don't like.

Please grant people the right to express their opinion without requiring them to provide "something better" should said opinion be negative.

[Nikita_Sadkov]

fabian said:

Please grant people the right to express their opinion without requiring them to provide "something better" should said opinion be negative.

I'm sure people having negative opinion can start their own WAD. Although cloning original Doom by letter will be boring experience and potentially copyright infringing too.

[jute]

It's possible to neither clone Doom nor use these little aliens for power ups....

I prefer the old generic sphere power ups to the new aliens. By serving only a gameplay function, and not a plot function, they better integrate with PWADs. Using the aliens as a Keen replacements strikes me as a far better way to work in the new plot/theme elements.

[Captain Ventris]

Maz Hades said:

I'm sick of people complaining but not providing anything to replace what they don't like.

We don't all have to be spriters to have a valid opinion. So no, others have not popped up with alternative sprites for the same reason that Freedoom hasn't had a unified sprite set since its inception. That doesn't mean you get to grumpily disregard the negative feedback.

[Catoptromancy]

I like the keen zam, it should stay. The jar needs to fully break so it is not hanging. The palette is also off, there is a weird purplish color.

[raymoohawk]

can i at least try the to make the new sprites, its not like having the little creatures forces a plot into pwads. i mean non one says that the doom spheres with their demonic appearance forces a plot into doom pwads

[Cacowad]

I'm not a part of the Freedoom team, but i'd say go for it, don't feel restrained. Imho i dislike those little reptiles as powerups essentially because they clash badly with what there is in the wad so far, they just don't fit as much as the hanged fat lizard (that is a replacement for keen, from what i've seen), and i just can't seems to have them hanging around in their current state... Maybe enclosing them in prims or whatewer form or shaped crystal would make them "feel" better?

[HorrorMovieRei]

What if you take some cues Doom's spheres? Like, you make the powerups spheres, but you give each a different lizard face. That way it still ties with the whole lizard plot point(?) but it's still abiguous enough to not clash with any pwad's story, and also don't clash with freedoom's overall atmosphere.
Then we could give an explanation that the spheres are some kind of magical blessed orbs that the great lizard shamans left behind before AGM inprisoned them.

[raymoohawk]

i dont see how the four reptiles would clash with a pwads story any more than magical spheres with souls trapped inside them would

if i do the sprites myself they would be in the same style of the other assets

[RonLivingston]

I actually think the new keen sprites would make me revert to the old commander keen sound effects

[Blastfrog]

Actually, having lizard faces in spheres would be a good idea.

Remember to keep the 5:6 pixels in mind when making it so it actually looks spherical.

[raymoohawk]

ill try my idea first, if i fail to satisy all parties with my design, ill turn them into items again, but even then they will not be spheres

[andrewj]

raymoohawk said:

ill try my idea first, if i fail to satisy all parties with my design, ill turn them into items again, but even then they will not be spheres

Sure, try your idea (as you obviously really want to do).

But remember that FreeDoom is a community project and even a great contributor like yourself does not get to dictate what is accepted or not.

[raymoohawk]

trying to persuade isnt the same as dictating or imposing. i get no one wants the reptiles, but that doesnt mean the items have to be spheres, since theyre animated they can at least be something more exciting.

[Nikita_Sadkov]

People, stop fighting!

Ideally the project should have single art director. The same way there should be team lead on the coding side. Otherwise you get two projects inside of one. Like in a country disputed between two leaders, there will be a civil war. I suggest voting for the best volunteer for the position.

Here is a nice article:
http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26396&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[Maz Hades]

I vote Raymoohawk. He knows what he's doing, he's skilled, and he's also a very nice person to deal with.

[raymoohawk]

i not sure choosing an art director would be a good idea for freedoom at this point.

i'll drop the power up zams idea, since it's become quite clear to me they won't be added even if i sprite them.

that said i still think the new power ups should be something that takes advantage of the animation. spheres with faces on them is just aping the original doom. and yes, i know we have shotguns in freedoom, but we don't have imps or bfgs, and it'd be better to not have soulspheres or blurspheres either. does anyone have ideas on what to make the new power ups? ideally they should be different from each other, reflect the nature of the power up, and be cool to look at.