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Gez

Raymoohawk's sprite edits

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Right, I'll be more specific. If you don't like the direction we're heading in, you need to tell us what you think should be changed. Empty complaints result in zero progress. I'm happy to try spriting people's ideas, but you need to tell us them first.

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I have always felt freedoom had a gritty semi-steampunk style. This gritty style is very compatible with pwads and looks good. Raymoo's sprites are perfect for this, though a bit polished. That bloax edited mancubus that was recently posted is perfect, it looks good and polished but maintains this grittiness.

Cartoon-like cute aliens just do not fit at all with the theme of almost all the other resources. I do like that alien with the two fireballs, it could be menacing enough to replace the lost soul.

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Yay, actual constructive criticism :D I'll try making the little zams creepier/more alien-like.
(edit) Thusly:

Spoiler

And here's a terrible attempt at spriting it:

Better?

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But is that really a powerup? Powerups seem like they should be like some kind of item, not a creature. I thought the new health and armor bonus would be great for two of the powerups.

Maybe revert the old health and armor bonuses(they could use a little touch up) and turn the new bonuses into powerups. I think they are almost the same but with different colors. Could use different colors for each powerup or modify them a bit so the themes match but they can be differentiated.

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love the new design of that little thing!

as i said before the only prob with the reptiles is that they need to be more different from each other. i think the fact that they seem harmless works well with theyre intended purpose. they are not enemies, they are allies, wich is why they give you a powerup when you rescue them (pick them up). compare it to the rescue mechanic in hovertank 3d, except that here you actually have a benefit to doing it

about the lots soul, i think the current lost soul should stay, along with the worm its one of the better sprites freedoom has

@cato

having the powerup spheres be creatures to rescue from agm makes the protagonist into a freedom fighter, and gives the game a bit more narrative. consider how the powerups, monsters and keen replacement will tie together. also only the spheres are being turned into creatures, since having animation it seems like a good opportunity. also reverting the armor and health bonus is a bad idea, the originals where too crappy

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They power you up by biting you and injecting you with venom, which depending on the one you save has different effects on you.
Please don't use that horrible sprite I just made for them, they really need something that wasn't drawn by a half-asleep person XD
Also once we finalise the zam's design I'll update the Keen replacement sprites.

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I'll concentrate on the frontal ones to begin with, but when they're done I could probably do rotations, since they're just small.

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What if the zamanthytes were, in fact, robots with artificially-grown organic exteriors? They could be a peaceful cyborg race which AGM is exploiting. Here's a very quick concept pic:

Spoiler

They'd naturally have a lot of robotic parts showing, which would provide plenty of scope for interesting spritework, but AGM's modified battle zams would have more or less organic parts, depending on the monster. Also this design incorporates the blobby, slimy aspect of the lower half as well as the skeletal aspect of the upper half, making it even more alien.

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sounds good to me, althoug i still think each zam should have a theme that reflects the nature of the powerup (though i do want them all to be cyborgs), for example, the invulnerability zam could take inspiration from bruiser monsters or have yellow glowing eyes like the hud face. the invisibility zam could have a more techie appearence, the nurse theme works well for soulzam, it just needs to have the new creepier design

nice drawing btw ;)

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I'm sorry, but I really don't think Zamanthytes fit at all, anywhere. As far as story goes, setting is more important than plot for something like Doom or Freedoom. We don't need anything that's boils down to more than "here's some monsters, get to the end of the level and kill them if you can".

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lets wait and see the new maz sprites, its not like having that element detracts in any way from gameplay, and the idea is potentially cooler than some spheres

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I think freedoom should not really have a specific story. I have posted and read several and but have concluded that something very generic would actually be better.

Should every pwad on idgames be zam themed? If the resources just fit our current theme then many pwads remain neutral. I think these are pushing a storyline on the resources themselves. A neutral item would look good whether its in hell, on a moon base, the fifth dimension, on earth, and such.

I think we should polish up what we have and/or replace the placeholders. Raymoo's sprites are perfect, we need monsters that have a coherent theme that feel neutral in all pwads.

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why dont we wait and see the new sprites, even the ones that are in right now are better than the spheres where. lets at least give maz a chance to make some new ones

also having 4 reptilian items doesnt force a story on all pwads, theres more items in the game than these four

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getting back on topic here are some corrected ish frames of the octi



in case your wondering about my slowness as of late, im trying to get used to gimp. its very frustrating to use, but photoshop crashes too much on my turdy computer. i mostly do the drawing and painting on gimp, since doing anything else is a pain on the ass on my small monitor, so i switch to photoshop to do the rest

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Now see, this is the attitude they had when they were designing Doom 3. "We need some kind of creepy monster which will crawl out of holes and swarm the player. Should we make a hellish locust beast, like the ones mentioned in the book of revelations, which is full of creepy weird hellish shit?"
"No, we don't want to make it too different or weird. Let's just use a FUCKING THING HEADSPIDER"
The reptillian theme is to replace the demonic theme, and just as there were different kinds of demon in doom, so freedoom can have different types of reptile. Cyborg reptiles are generic enough, while providing scope for individuality between monsters. I'm working on the cyberzam sprite now, so I'll post it soon.
@Raymoohawk yea boi dem sweet 'tween frames :D Have you tried paint.net? It may or may not be easier to use than gimp

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raymoohawk said:

getting back on topic here are some corrected ish frames of the octi

That is a lot of attention to detail. Do you work from the 3d model ( http://opengameart.org/content/octaminator ), or it is just a fan art?

raymoohawk said:

photoshop crashes too much on my turdy computer.

Photoshop (CS5) crashes on all kinds of computers and occasions. The most annoying crash is when you try to save your work (especially as a png file), then Photoshop also crashes, when you are trying to transform layer shared between several animation frames. Sometime it crashes just because it feels like it is the time to crash and there is nothing you can do.

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teh bucket did that model as a request from me based on older sprites i made. the metal parts of the new sprites are heavely edited from renders of the model, some of the tentacles where done from scratch, others are edits of the same renders.

below is the original, this is what teh bucket used as referent for the model



about the crashing, ive had all those happen to me, but crashing during saving has been happening to me a lot lately

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looks good to me. wich of the powerups are you intending it to be? (might be a good idea to have drawings of the four designs ready before spriting)

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She's the basic one. It'd help if people could throw ideas at me for how I could make the different ones represent the powerups they give :D

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Catoptromancy said:

Cartoon-like cute aliens just do not fit at all with the theme of almost all the other resources. I do like that alien with the two fireballs, it could be menacing enough to replace the lost soul.

I agree! The new power-up sprites look childish and cheesy, I don't like them at all. Frankly, I cannot believe that they have already been commited.

Just because Freedoom takes place on a Lizard planet (have I missed something?!) does not mean that now *everything* has to be a lizard. At least I don't find the idea of picking up a lizard doll for invisibility or full health very convincing.

Regarding "constructive criticism", please turn the power-ups into *things* again. Lizard eggs if you like. But please nothing that resembles a living creature, thanks!

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i dont see the problem its just four items, four lizards doesnt make everything lizards, also they dont have to be cute, the new sprites can be cool looking, lets wait and see

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I have trouble reigning in my creativity, I can't just make some generic pickup item. If you guys have such a problem with the current designs, you make something. I'm sick of people complaining but not providing anything to replace what they don't like.

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lets try to keep the disscussion calm, we dont want this to get post helled

heres an idea. i'll try tossing together a reptile that looks closer to the monsters im working on, and if im unable to do something that satisfies all parties, we can revert to the spheres, does that sound good?

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I don't really like the lizard-esque power-ups either. And I don't quite understand why the Zamanthytes we're being forced on FreeDoom in the first place. They literally seem like they came out of nowhere. Maybe they could be a good concept in some other creative piece, but not so well here. And it seems the community turn-out has been negative so far.

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at least let me try, as i said if i am unable to make a design that most people like ill drop the idea, but i want to give the idea a shot first. just because the first attempt turned out too cute, that doesnt mean it cant turn out well on a second try. people didnt want the updated torches at first either

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Freedoom has lacked an art direction for its whole life, now that it's finally getting one, let's at least see how it pans out before dismissing this one entirely. :-)

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