Raymoohawk's sprite edits

Z0k said:

i honestly like more the improved imp than just "a gnome like" imp.

thank's for actually reading my post

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frithiof said:

Say what you will about the old sprites, but you have to admire how the project managed to include all of them in a usable state...


I was just being saucy ;)

Monster sprites are probably the most difficult and important art assets. The main problem with most of the existing ones is that they look like they were scanned from drawings/taken from 3d models but never optimized for the palette or on a pixel level. A lot of the designs are competent or better, but unrefined (I think the caco and baron/hellknight replacements are the only irredeemable ones, and the pain elemental is suspiciously lazy). On a personal level I am not a big fan of the spindly leg and waist with big feet silhouette that all of the player and zombie sprites seem to have, but that is nitpicky and personal taste. The cyberdemon, for example, had a good design, but poor implementation in-engine up until the updates.

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more polishing of the imp, man some of the frames make a horrible base, but overall im enjoying this

the first rotation is done!
(shading will be imroved later)
arachno progress

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thanks jbr!
guys i was thinking that maybe we should have more unisex sounds for the sounds that are shared by different monsters, that would allow to have for example male and female zombies or a male knight and female baron. im not propossing we do it now of course, just bringing it up because of the imp

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We are actually missing many sounds as well. All the noticeable ones are done, since people noticed them.

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Man those sprites are amazing, they are a much needed overhaul to the existing Freedoom gfx. Looking forward to the end result.

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Finally got round to turning the zombie sprite sheet into a WAD. You can find it here. It's looking great!

raymoohawk, I'd like to commit both the zombie and the cyberdemon that you've done so far. Can you confirm that you're happy to release your edits under the Freedoom license? Assuming so, I'll go ahead and add them.

The new shotgun zombie and imp are also looking great. We've had most of these sprites for years now but it's amazing how you're really bringing them to life.

Thanks!

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i do agree, part of what got me into freedoom is precisely the open source like license

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fraggle said:

Finally got round to turning the zombie sprite sheet into a WAD. You can find it here. It's looking great!

raymoohawk, I'd like to commit both the zombie and the cyberdemon that you've done so far. Can you confirm that you're happy to release your edits under the Freedoom license? Assuming so, I'll go ahead and add them.

The new shotgun zombie and imp are also looking great. We've had most of these sprites for years now but it's amazing how you're really bringing them to life.

Thanks!


Woah... the new zombie... it seems to breathe new life into Freedoom. Absolutely incredible. Yes, I saw the samples, but actually seeing it in Freedoom is something else.

Please keep up the good work, raymoohawk. :)

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thanks! ill definitely continue, althoug my progress will be slower for the next couple of months because of pesky school :-)

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third rotation!

by the way can i put the sprites sheets i complete over at opengameart, i noticed they had mnm´s grell over there

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Freedoom's license is basically to do whatever you want but give credit. So just mention they are from Freedoom and that should be good enough.

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ok, i was thinking of putting them over there to see if it raised more interest in the project

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Yep, I just committed both the Cyberdemon edits and the new zombie.

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okay just tested the latest build, and i have to say i will have to do some heavy correcting to the zombies, because the colors are massively inconsistent from frame to frame

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I'm really liking the rest of your work so far (Freedoom BADLY needs this), but I'm not so sure about the imp's torso for two reasons. First is that it looks a tad pillow-shaded (mostly the front angles, side's fine), second is that I'm not sure feminine breasts should be on the sprite. I'm not a prude and I'm not gay, but their presence on the imp replacements make me uncomfortable. It just seems inappropriate somehow.

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thanks for the feedback soda :-)
i did think about the boobs being a potential problem but it only ocurred to me late into the edit, if you guys think i should remove or reduce them im fine with that

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OMG i'm getting really happy all this sprites is awsome, i'm ever wondering freedoom getting a cocoward or something, but before if possible keep this 3 legs cyberdemon they look very original in this way.

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Sodaholic said:

I'm really liking the rest of your work so far (Freedoom BADLY needs this), but I'm not so sure about the imp's torso for two reasons. First is that it looks a tad pillow-shaded (mostly the front angles, side's fine), second is that I'm not sure feminine breasts should be on the sprite. I'm not a prude and I'm not gay, but their presence on the imp replacements make me uncomfortable. It just seems inappropriate somehow.


Is it because of the implication that putting breasts on the imp suggests that the monsters are capable of reproducing?

Or does it have to do with making one of the weakest monsters in the game a female? The zombies are male, if that matters.

And in the real world, many armies (including the USA) have female soldiers. That doesn't stop their enemies from shooting at them and blowing them up.

I like to play Doom/Freedoom with the mindset that I'm a space marine that has been injected with a mind-altering drug, placed on enemy bases, and all of the monsters are actually innocent humans that I'm slaughtering. It's really the only thing that makes sense, given the lack of plot, the continually increasing level of craziness if you go from Doom 1 to Doom 2, and presumably that's why id software pretended that this was not the plot of the game. Brutal Doom amps up that theme to 11.

edit: Keep the boobs.

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i think the problem people could bring up is that the boobs are too big, and that the imp is the enemy that gets killed thee most frequently, ill upload several revised versions later and let you guys decide wich design i should continue
EDIT
dont forget that the eventual hope is to have freedoom preinstalled in some OSes distributions, its best not to do anything that could potentially impede it

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If you keep the boobs, all I'd ask would be for them to be shaped like boobs and not like balloons.

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i dont know if ill keep them, heres a few possibilities of the revised the design, they dont have proper shading yet



ill upload some more soon

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Protox said:

OMG i'm getting really happy all this sprites is awsome, i'm ever wondering freedoom getting a cocoward or something, but before if possible keep this 3 legs cyberdemon they look very original in this way.

Freedoom has never received a cacoward, which is kind of odd when you consider what a huge and significant project it is and how long it's been around for. Maybe it's because of the development model and the fact that it's never had a 1.0 release.

Anyway I'm not complaining. Maybe we should have our own separate annual award to recognise the people who have contributed the most to Freedoom over the past year? Though "orbmonsteraward" doesn't quite have the same ring to it as cacoward does. heh

boobs discussion

I think it's great that we're having this discussion. Violence against women in gaming is pretty controversial and deserves to have more thoughtful discussion. It's a subject that shouldn't be taken lightly.

That said I'm not sure I see the problem. The imps are unambiguously creatures and Not Human - they're not even really humanoid (snake-like things). Certainly raymoohawk's edits bring some suggestions of a female humanoid shape but I still feel it's obvious that they're not women.

Does anyone really think that shooting these things would make them feel like they were shooting women? Honest question and I'd like to hear feedback from others.

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raymoohawk said:

i dont know if ill keep them, heres a few possibilities of the revised the design, they dont have proper shading yet



ill upload some more soon


As an alternative, instead of giving the imp boobs, you could give it a massive penis. Hahaha... ;)

Or maybe keep the boobs AND give it a 2 foot long penis, to make it seem like a proper monster. Maybe give the imp more muscles, to give the vague implication that it used too many steroids.

Seriously though, we need to decide on one style of imp. Indecisiveness can be bad for projects. I still support the original style of raymoohawk's imp.

fraggle said:

I think it's great that we're having this discussion. Violence against women in gaming is pretty controversial and deserves to have more thoughtful discussion. It's a subject that shouldn't be taken lightly.

That said I'm not sure I see the problem. The imps are unambiguously creatures and Not Human - they're not even really humanoid (snake-like things). Certainly raymoohawk's edits bring some suggestions of a female humanoid shape but I still feel it's obvious that they're not women.

Does anyone really think that shooting these things would make them feel like they were shooting women? Honest question and I'd like to hear feedback from others.


Women can be aggressors, too. While most campaigns against domestic violence depict women as the victims, it is also possible for men to be victims. In the case of the imp, male or female, it is clearly throwing energy balls at and physically assaulting the male "hero". But I'm digressing from the main point of the discussion.

Is it truly unrealistic to think that women may participate in a war? I suppose it probably wouldn't hurt to change the model if having females in the game would make it a little too realistic, and therefore make some users of Freedoom uncomfortable.

Now if we were trying to depict the monsters as being children, I might have an issue with that. That might be going a little too far, even though there is historical precedence for that sort of thing.

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