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sincity2100

Why the majority of any doom games has to be imps?

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I mean how about someting difffernt other than imps,a typical doom game has to start with imps,and then It has to be a load of them at the very last,I know that imps are the franchise monster,the poster boy,but why not make them a rare monsters,get something new and fresh,like Shotgunners,Chaingunners or even Zombiemen or something?

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Well, IWADS are stuffed with the vermin because they have a small footprint, don't give out ammo uncontrolled, are easily understood as a light-to-moderate threat by the mapper, and frankly small mobs of imps represent casual downtime which most games need to feel a little less daunting.

are you suggesting an impless community project? >:)

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The hitscan monsters can get annoying, depending on the map's architecture. Also, you can't always create effective groups of them due to infighting and low health.

Also, imps drop nothing.

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The imps are really the workhorse of Doom monsters: not too tough to be just annoying meat shields, but not so weak as to go down too easily as zombiemen do. They are pretty much the reason for seeking out a shotgun ASAP, and even with it, there's about a 3/20 chance that they'll survive even a full-face, perfect SG blast to the face.

Also, they can hurl projectiles, so they aren't just dumb gorillas running around, like pinkies, and they are actually much more decent at melee than pinkies: an imp can fuck up an unarmored player in just 5 hits, if the RNG Gods hate you, and they don't miss in melee, unlike the pinkies.

They are small enough to go where the player goes, relentless, and unmerciful. If they were brawler game characters, they would be the most used kind of street thug. Common, yes, but not to be underestimated. Their "enhanced" version would tbe the Revenants. They have all of the Imps' qualities, but they are even more of bad motherfuckers. If Imps were like tough street thugs armed with fists, Revenants are like the booty daddies of those tough thugs ;-)

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Maes said:

...and they don't miss in melee, unlike the pinkies.

They miss in melee, but they pretend that they wanted to throw a fireball all along. :)

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Maes said:

They are small enough to go where the player goes, relentless, and unmerciful. If they were brawler game characters, they would be the most used kind of street thug. Common, yes, but not to be underestimated. Their "enhanced" version would tbe the Revenants. They have all of the Imps' qualities, but they are even more of bad motherfuckers. If Imps were like tough street thugs armed with fists, Revenants are like the booty daddies of those tough thugs ;-)

except you can make revenants completely harmless by baiting them in their melee stance, much like the pinkies, and you'll always know what kind of attack they're going to use. attacking an imp in close range is more of a gamble, as they'll ALWAYS initiate an attack that has a chance to hit. get too close, and they'll scratch you. stay just a bit away from them, and they'll throw a fireball.

imps are kind of amazing due to their versatility. a duo or trio of Imps can easily be handled with a shotgun, but a group of 10 imps can fuck you up depending on how they're placed.

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For the abovementioned reasons, imps are good basic enemies. But IMO, shotgunners are better basic enemies because they pose a bigger challenge. Unfortunately they drop too many shells if used in large numbers.

I believe that a project without imps could work. Also, they (and their projectiles) could be DEHACKED-changed into another, more dangerous enemy.

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Is it just me, or are imps not as much of a threat as shotgunners?

I find their fireballs really easy to dodge, but if a shotgunner gets a shot off then at the very least they can shave a tiny bit off my armour/health. Unless they're at a long enough range that they can easily miss, of course. But even then they can get a tiny bit lucky whereas classic doom imp fireballs travel really slowly and are ludicrously easy to dodge at long range, unless you somehow get hemmed in by a ridiculous amount of them.

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What makes groups of hitscanners a joke, is that they end up shooting each other and thinning their own ranks. That being said, a close quarters ambush by one shotgunner or one chaingunner can indeed fuck you up worse than a single imp's attack, but so can an imp ambush with the time to get a fireball and a couple of scratches on your back. And unlike zombies, you can have ambush teams made of all imps, which will actually work together.

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VGA said:

The hitscan monsters can get annoying, depending on the map's architecture. Also, you can't always create effective groups of them due to infighting and low health.

Also, imps drop nothing.



having lots of hitscanners can make a map play more like a modern shooter where you seek cover rather than dodge their projectiles. that dodging and being in control of the game makes it appealing to me. the shotgun is perfect for fighting imps. beating the crap out of them with the berserk is even better. i like imps ;)

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Imp's are perfectly okay for a map to have in large numbers and in a variety of different situations that can compliment the map itself (or weapons/ammo available for that matter). Their reasonable durability and versatility attack-wise are what make them the perfect option for being the predominant enemy.

On one hand they can play a support role (so to speak) for larger enemies as they do in some larger Doom II maps and can be a particular nuisance when they're located in various directions. On the other hand they're also great to use in maps like E2M2 (closer quarters in confined areas). In the first example, it also helps that it more or less gives the player a fighting chance by default to be able to maneuver (which in turn perhaps allows more flexbility for the map designer).

Honestly i'm usually fine with how Imps are used. There's generally more than enough "former human" enemies in a lot of custom wads anyway and I really don't mind facing off against them. Shotgun-strafing and picking off imps one by one is something I personally enjoy in various situations and like someone said - at the very least it can be good for casual down time in between fighting larger enemies.

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They're the most well-balanced, basic enemy in the game. They can be used in a variety of positions (group of snipers, close-range pincer attack, etc.). The fact is they can be used in early or late maps in a good way when utilized properly. Zombiemen are stupid-easy and shotgunners are best used as a shock troop of sorts (alongside revenants, they're the glass cannons of Doom). Imps are good in abundance.

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The shotgun is too overpowered for monsters like zombiemen and shotgun guys. Half the pellets fly through them and make it feel wasteful. Imps have enough health that a full shotgun blast gives the imp a nice thrust backwards on impact, while zombiemen tend to just drop to the floor. The super shotgun is really only helpful in situations where zombiemen and shotgun guys are in close proximity or lined up single file, and only really works if you've just woken them up, because those are the same conditions that cause them to in fight. Zombies are well appropriated to chainguns but shotguns are more durable and exciting to use.

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Inkie said:

They are the goomba of doom.

Except only Goombas don't throw projectiles and just run into you.

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Imps are kinda weird in that, if you know what you're doing, they're harmless in small groups. Yet, they're extremely volatile in larger groups. Tricks and Traps for example has several Massive Imp encounters that can end badly (if you're new to the map, anyways).

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E3M2 is a great example of a map that contains no imps, instead relying on balanced numbers of lost souls, former humans, demons and cacodemons to make it tough. It's interesting because you probably won't remember it rightaway as the level with zero imps.

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printz said:

E3M2 is a great example of a map that contains no imps, instead relying on balanced numbers of lost souls, former humans, demons and cacodemons to make it tough. It's interesting because you probably won't remember it rightaway as the level with zero imps.


That's really interesting, thinking of that map off hand I have trouble picturing it without imps in it at all, but you're absolutely right. Are there any other Doom, Doom 2, or Final Doom maps that don't have Imps in them? Off the top of my head I can quickly exclude boss maps like the ExM8's of Doom, MAP30-32 of Doom 2, and Hunted from Plutonia. Are there any others?

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40oz said:

Are there any other Doom, Doom 2, or Final Doom maps that don't have Imps in them? Off the top of my head I can quickly exclude boss maps like the ExM8's of Doom, MAP30-32 of Doom 2, and Hunted from Plutonia. Are there any others?


Yay, time for some Doomwiki research :)

Maps 05, 07, 11, 27, 30, 31 and 32 of Plutonia don't have imps on UV... that's right, Go 2 It doesn't have a single imp.

Map06 only has one imp on UV (this guy) and there are a few more maps in Plutonia where there are only 2 imps on UV. On the other hand map09 has 99 - that's more than the whole monstercounts for most Plutonia maps.

EDIT: also E2M9 and E3M7 which I think was mentioned in this same thread a few posts above but somehow I can't find the post now...

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Clonehunter said:

Massive Imp encounters that can end badly


Depends on what you were looking for in the first place hint hint nudge nudge

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