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40oz

Really Impressed with self?

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Ever had an experience in Doom where you managed to pull off a maneuver or some other unlikely occurence, that if someone were to ask you to do a second time, there's no way you could do it?

Ever been backed into a corner by a ton of Hell Barons and some how manage to shoot your way out and leave unscathed? Slalom in between homing missiles so closely that you were just within a few pixels of getting blown up? Get pinned by some archviles with no cover and somehow manage to repeatedly interrupt their attack sequence just in time before taking damage until successfully killing them? Run through a deadly chaingunner trap so fast that somehow they all miss all (or most of the) shots?

What other things have you managed to do in Doom where you were really impressed with yourself?

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TendaMonsta said:

Not much is really impressive in Doom since it's such an easy game. Speedruns tend to show some pretty neat stuff though.

You do realize people play custom wads which are made to be much harder than the base games. ;)

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Avoozl said:

You do realize people play custom wads which are made to be much harder than the base games. ;)

I'm thinking more of the aiming requirements, and the easily manipulated enemy AI. Doom has questionable skill-indexing.

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40oz said:

if someone were to ask you to do a second time, there's no way you could do it?

This springs to mind.

Gotta say I was pretty pleased to discover this, even though executing it wasn't difficult at all.

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TendaMonsta said:

Not much is really impressive in Doom since it's such an easy game. Speedruns tend to show some pretty neat stuff though.

I'm curios as to which FPS games you find more intensive in terms of skill requirements. Doom is a game where only a few skills are honed, but oh boy are they honed sharply.

In contrast, many games reward precision aiming (scope assisted, generally), the ability to find and camp behind cover, and well, that's usually it. By contrast, Doom requires slightly less precise aim however you need a faster reaction time, the ability to assess and work within an environment to dodge projectiles and remain out of sight to hitscanners. In deathmatch, this is all increased exponentially.

In terms of FPS, it's not exactly super high demand, but it certainly seems to require more skill than the 'casual' stuff we often see today. I'm keen to hear some games you find tougher for 'skill centric' reasons. (By that I mean, deaths aren't cause by unavoidable bullshit.) I'm always looking for games that are fun and challenging!

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Really impressed with self, while playing Doom? Nope, I just suck. Play cowardly most of the time, die for stupid mistakes etc. When it seems like if I survived a hard moment, it turns out that it was part of a clever level design to allow the player survive more easily than it appears.

I've only been impressed with self when repeatedly winning a Quake 3 deathmatch against my classmates who played shooters all the time, even though I'm always the worst loser in Doom deathmatch and I haven't player Quake 3 for years before than event.

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I often do really well/discover a useful trick for a level when practising for recording a demo, then suck miserably when actually recording.
:( Because of this, I only have about 2 demos.

But I have to say, I'm always pathetically pleased when I manage to pull off a a string of two-shotgun shot Demon kills. Lame, I know. :D

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Doomkid said:

I'm curios as to which FPS games you find more intensive in terms of skill requirements. Doom is a game where only a few skills are honed, but oh boy are they honed sharply.

In contrast, many games reward precision aiming (scope assisted, generally), the ability to find and camp behind cover, and well, that's usually it. By contrast, Doom requires slightly less precise aim however you need a faster reaction time, the ability to assess and work within an environment to dodge projectiles and remain out of sight to hitscanners. In deathmatch, this is all increased exponentially.

In terms of FPS, it's not exactly super high demand, but it certainly seems to require more skill than the 'casual' stuff we often see today. I'm keen to hear some games you find tougher for 'skill centric' reasons. (By that I mean, deaths aren't cause by unavoidable bullshit.) I'm always looking for games that are fun and challenging!

Quake series, Team Fortress Series (at a competitive level), Duke Nukem 3D, UT Series, Painkiller.

The enemies move too slow, their projectiles are too slow, they can't lead projectiles, autoaim is too forgiving (it's already bad enough that you don't need to be that precise and can't aim up or down), RNG <------ (what crack do you have to smoke to think this is a good idea), and the main DeathMatch mode was quite shallow (Alt-death should've been the main DM mode). I'm not saying the skill-requirements are bad at all (Speedrunning can be difficult, or playing through a well thought out map similar to Plutonia), but they could've been improved.

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I was about to disagree with you, TendaMonsta, but I think in terms of pure execution Doom's skill indexing is pretty poor. Now that you point this out, it may be a reason why I love Doom so much. I never cared for Quake or UT deathmatch. I'd like to get good at Williams Arcade's DEFENDER, but god, I just don't see myself putting in the hours to develop the execution skills. For the same reason, I think, I never really got into Super Meat Boy. I wish I could play Brood War for real too, but that's just never gonna happen.

I think you're only looking at part of the picture when you call Doom an "easy" game, though. The individual elements are all quite easy, but Doom is about the larger scenarios and those are often extremely difficult.

I'm impressed with myself pretty much any time I beat a good level on UV playing blind and without any quicksaves.

If I know the level and I'm saving frequently, it's all meh to me.

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I don't save scum. Proud of that. Only save at the beginning of the level. When I watch ppl play on YT or Twitch, they save after each enemy encounter and reload when they die. When I die I start from the beginning of the level

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Vs1991 said:

I don't save scum. Proud of that. Only save at the beginning of the level. [...] When I die I start from the beginning of the level

You're rightfully proud. ("resurrect"-cheater has spoken)

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I was DM'ing on Vesperas (Master Levels) one time when I randomly fired a rocket out of the window at one end of the map, in through the window at the opposite end of the map and actually fragged someone with it. This feat involved absolutely no skill on my part, but damn, was it satisfying.

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There are times I get through a situation in a slick manner and say "wow, I fucking did that?" afterwards. Happens all the time since I'm the ultimate pro doomer.

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TendaMonsta said:

Quake series, Team Fortress Series (at a competitive level), Duke Nukem 3D, UT Series, Painkiller.

Painkiller is a mega pro 1337 game alright.

Doom can be considered a game of "easy to learn, hard to master" type. Which is hardly a bad thing.

TendaMonsta said:

RNG <------ (what crack do you have to smoke to think this is a good idea)

Ok, what's with your irrational hate towards RNG?

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scalliano said:

I was DM'ing on Vesperas (Master Levels) one time when I randomly fired a rocket out of the window at one end of the map, in through the window at the opposite end of the map and actually fragged someone with it. This feat involved absolutely no skill on my part, but damn, was it satisfying.

I love frags like that.. So damn fun getting those unexpected kills.

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Killing enemies with minimal amount of shots. Two rockets at hell knights? Or two-shotting Cybers with BFG? Those always bring small amount of smug feeling.

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Painkiller is a mega pro 1337 game alright.


Ha. This particular namedrop puzzled me as well. I'm going through Trauma right now, and if anything I'm glad so little twitch skill is required, once you know the game a little.

To be fair, while you can get away with "cheap" tactics, there's also lots of room for more skilled play as most of your weapons have limited range and curved trajectories, enemies strafe a little, combined with constant bunnyhopping and the occasional tricks you can pull off, jumping on and from enemies and objects, juggling corpses for gold, etc..

So perhaps the argument for a high ceiling can be made. But then, in Doom with SR50, wallrunning, thingrunning, rocket jumps, glides, etc. it seems like there's a fair amount of twitch skill possibilities as well, just not related to precision shooting. I suppose objectively vanilla Painkiller is harder than vanilla Doom, but I'd say some Doom PWADs are significantly more challenging than the toughest PK levels. The difficulty is more about moving than aiming, but it's there.

Ok, what's with your irrational hate towards RNG?


He might be confrontational about it, but I don't see why it should make his point invalid.

As I understand the pro RNG arguments, for some people it can simulate the lack of adequate physics regarding bullet penetration, damage localization, air resistance and similar stuff.

But for those of us who don't care about realism to that extent, it's just an added layer of obfuscation between the game and its rules. Plus it means sometimes a critical miss ruins your day.

Managing the odds is a skill, no doubt; but a first-person shooter isn't a card game. There's enough variables for gameplay to be interesting without a random factor.

You may or may not agree, but at least try to see some people see it that way. There's nothing irrational about disliking something when from your perspective that something is a needless nuisance.

Edit: aah, ok. Fair enough.

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I understand why someone would dislike RNG. I was referring to the fact that this issue was brought up by the same author around three times in the last week or so.

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