regarding autoaim, mouse look, and other such features

[invictius]

A lot of wads in the ports directory (and even some projects on here) aren't very clear about whether the maps are designed for jumping or not, and it isn't mentioned very much in text files - I also rarely come across zdoom wads that have jumping disabled. How would one get an idea of whether a map is meant for jumping? Getting stuck on an early map and not knowing whether it's because you need to jump is annoying, and inadvertently cheating is no fun.

How many of you use mouse look? And auto-aim? I started with arrow keys, space for opening doors, etc... then graduated to using A and Z for looking (default quake and duke controls iirc. Up until recently I used full mouselook and no autoaim, until I decided to use wsad for movement, looking disabled, turn etc with the mouse. I'm not entirely sure if autoaim is compatible with mouse look, though there are at least two separate options for it.

And finally - are there any helpful console commands for when you're really stuck on a map and can't find the way out? I saw a proposal for a "sherlock" command that would throw all switches, highlight a waypoint, etc. Even something that shows whether a linedef is an exit in the automap.

[VGA]

Jumping, seriously? Unless specifically mentioned, don't jump. I don't have a key set for it at all, I think. Forget about jumping.

I personally use freelook with no autoaim.

When stuck I find a playthrough of the map in YouTube.

[Gez]

I generally assume that if a map is made specifically for ZDoom, jumping and crouching are allowed. Also I have no qualms about jumping in vanilla/Boom maps. I only use it for shortcutting when backtracking on such maps, not to sequence-break, so I don't feel like cheating.

As for finding the way when stuck. On ZDoom, exit linedefs are drawn in a different color, as are teleporters and locked doors. Non-door linedefs with specials are also, optionally, colored differently.

[invictius]

Gez said:

As for finding the way when stuck. On ZDoom, exit linedefs are drawn in a different color, as are teleporters and locked doors. Non-door linedefs with specials are also, optionally, colored differently.

They're really hard to see with default colours, what background colour do you use for your map? Too bad you can't set the lines to be thicker. Running in 320x200 helps, but that's obviously not something I want to have to do.

[scifista42]

I use autoaim. I play with keyboard only and don't use mouselook, I only rarely look up/down to aim better, or temporarily enable mouselook if I need special precision for making a shot. I don't jump or crouch in any wads unless I know it's meant to be allowed. I admit, sometimes I jump / crouch / cheat to avoid being punished for just a little mistake or to speed up backtracking, mostly when the map already pissed me off somehow, normally I try not to do this.

[Blastfrog]

I said in another thread that I feel that Doom already has jumping. Since 8 units is a foot, the 24 unit max height for climbing is 3 feet, which seems like a decent height for an equipment encumbered space marine to climb (seriously, to maintain speed he's got to be jumping). Then you can jump gaps as long as you hit the edge of the next sector within 3 feet of its floor.

[Phml]

Getting stuck on an early map and not knowing whether it's because you need to jump is annoying, and inadvertently cheating is no fun.

I have run into this issue often with ZDoom maps. Many maps break with jumping. Part of the problem may be that even when jumping is intended, having so much more freedom of movement increases potential for sequence breaks, and many authors don't bother with the rigorous testing required to make sure everything is foolproof.

Still, I think it would be nice if more ZDoom wads would show a quick HUD message at the beginning to show the intended settings.

Even disabling jumping through MAPINFO is kind of an annoyance to me, because it's silent. You're running along minding your own business, then at one point for some reason you try to jump, and that's the point where you find out you can't. It's a pet peeve of mine in vanilla/Boom maps, because I know I'm not supposed to jump, so when I do so I am knowingly cheating, I don't need to be told that's not the intended behavior.

Now there's the argument about most people not being aware jumping isn't a basic Doom feature, but if you're going through the trouble of putting a MAPINFO lump in your vanilla wad you may as well add a ZDoom specific map, like a 5 second black screen with text before the main wad showcasing the intended settings.

Autoaim seems OK most of the time, mostly because most Doom maps aren't vertical enough to make mouselook required.

Vertical rocket jumping pretty much breaks everything that isn't explicitely labelled as a rocket jumping map. Strangely enough I don't think most people are even aware of the possibility, even though popular culture often remembers that feature with fondness in oldschool shooters.

[dew]

I kinda agree with phml. I'd say Pirate Doom does enough tho, it mentions jumping is forbidden and crouching is allowed but not encouraged in the help screen. And yeah, fools have no idea how vertical splash boost breaks everything.

[DaniJ]

Phml said:

if you're going through the trouble of putting a MAPINFO lump in your vanilla wad you may as well add a ZDoom specific map, like a 5 second black screen with text before the main wad showcasing the intended settings

I have to say that this sounds hideous to me from a user experience perspective. Mods should never be forced to implement a UI crutch that the port itself is far better positioned to address. Say this becomes common practice - the result could be every single mod you try to play interupting you with a UI whose presentation is different to the last rendition you saw.

Clearly there is a problem here that ports which implement MAPINFO currently fail to address adequetly. The info needed to generate such a UI is present, so the best solution is to bug the relevant developer(s) to address it in a uniform way that makes sense for their port.

(Thankyou for highlighting the problem. I'll certainly be looking to automate such a UI in Doomsday when I implement nojump (etc) support).

[Salt-Man Z]

I'm with scfista. I use keyboard only, with the keys set to the Hexen defaults. I only jump if I know it's allowed, or discover I have to. I use freelook, well, freely; sometimes to assist with aiming (for monsters above/below the normal plane of view) but often just to look around.

[Janus3003]

So, what's the best way to tell the player jumping/crouching are required short of a blatant in-game message?
My first thoughts are starting the first map at a broken bridge or something that requires a jump. Soon afterward, have some crevice that needs to be passed through (make it clear there's no other way). Let the level design inform the player.

As for typical playstyle- I use freelook with no autoaim. I typically avoid jumping and crouching unless the level was made for them, but sometimes I'll do it just for the heck of it (recently jumped through Doom 2 while playing GMOTA. The super jump made Map29 rather short).
Though I have no qualms about jumping across forced nukage runs.

[TendaMonsta]

Have people read the damn ReadME.

[invictius]

TendaMonsta said:

Have people read the damn ReadME.

9 out of 10 zdoom maps don't say anything about jumping etc in their text file.

[TendaMonsta]

invictius said:

9 out of 10 zdoom maps don't say anything about jumping etc in their text file.

LOL. That is all.