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Infirnex

Hatred - Is there a line that can be crossed?

Does Hatred take violence in games too far?  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Hatred take violence in games too far?

    • Yes, it does go beyond what is acceptable.
      17
    • No, it is fine for what is considered fine.
      19
    • I don't really care, honestly.
      51
    • Impse 1
      9
    • Impse 2
      9


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So here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX7G-1xPLs
(If anyone can tell me how to embed videos, that would be nice...)

Hatred is a isometric mass murder simulator. That's a term that usually is referred to any game by moral guardians. Here, that's what it actually is. You are to kill as many innocents as you can before you go down.

This is causing quite a shitstorm online at this time. It kinda makes you wonder if there is a line that can be crossed when it comes to violence in video games. I normally don't mind violence in video games...but this one makes me feel uncomfortable.

Also, Hatred steals the Doom font for it's logo.

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Huh. I suppose it depends on what the actual plot is to fully form my opinion. If that's really all it is is literally a "murder simulator" as ol' Jack Thompson would call it, the concept does seem a little shaky. And only because this is exactly the kind of thing that WOULD enable people already predisposed to psychopathy to think it might be a good idea to emulate what they see. Obviously GTA has the ability to murder indiscriminately already, but that's not the object of the game; and even Manhunt has you hunting and executing criminals who've already been condemned by the law.

But then again, this might have been considered more edgy hadn't Postal been a thing already. Looks like basically the same exact template as the original just with upgraded graphics.

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It looks like a grim-dark version of Postal, so it culd be cool. Ironically, today's gaming media will make a bigger stink about killing women and PoC than the fact you are senselessly murdering anything with a pulse.

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I can't see an isometric game crossing any line when it comes to graphical violence. Is it the plot that's supposed to make it worse? I think there's much more disturbing ideologies in video games than a lunatic going on a rampage, especially in their widespread acceptance; i.e. the common trope your opponents are subhuman because their beliefs are different.

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Well... kudos, I guess, for removing any pretense of a story and going full Columbine. The game still looks like a polished turd, though.

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While it was sort of fun to slaughter civilians in games like GTA and Prototype - it was so mainly for the fact that it was a brief moment of [optional] relief in-between actual missions. And when the whole game focuses on this... meh. I don't care about controversial nature of the game, but it's the very idea behind it that's really offputting due to its silliness. Like an even more mindless Alien Shooter, I don't think it could be fun.

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Phml said:

I can't see an isometric game crossing any line when it comes to graphical violence. Is it the plot that's supposed to make it worse? I think there's much more disturbing ideologies in video games than a lunatic going on a rampage, especially in their widespread acceptance; i.e. the common trope your opponents are subhuman because their beliefs are different.

Yeah, this game may be tasteless, crass, ridiculously stupid and offensively ugly, but I don't think that makes it banworthy. Games have allowed massacres in the past, just not in such detail and in America's small town settings. Hell, I've leveled entire cities in Baldur's Gate, Fallout and the GTA series - usually something ingame pissed me off and murderous spree, here we come. To be fair, however, it always meant "game over", because it became impossible to progress in the plot/mission objectives.

This Hatred thing seems on par with Sigvatr's Muslim Massacre, because the only objective seems to be shock value. Or maybe it's an obscure (mock?)SJW viral and the authors will later preach how this game mirrors our twisted perception and how it would feel acceptable if those victims were brown & muslim. Crusader No Remorse lets you burn civilians with napalm fire, because they work for an evil corporation, heh.

People should have enough sense to filter this shit out by themselves, not by actions of the nanny state. Game looks bad and repetitive.

EDIT: phrasing

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Phml said:

i.e. the common trope your opponents are subhuman because their beliefs are different.


If the game's target was Nazi's, everyone would probably praise this game. Well, besides the repetitiveness of it.

I guess, for most, it "hits too close to home." Other games (sans Postal) don't really have people pleading for their life - if they are people at all.

It's not like I think the game should be banned. Common sense should dictate that this isn't a game you get for your kid on Christmas. But I personally won't play it...just would be too uncomfortable for me.

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The lack any resistance to this weirdo simulator makes it boring (and kind of tasteless) already. At least in GTA you have intelligent cops hunting you down.

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BlackFish said:

The lack any resistance to this weirdo simulator makes it boring (and kind of tasteless) already. At least in GTA you have intelligent cops hunting you down.


You can actually see there is police. Now how aggressive will they be is another thing. If you can walk in and light up a police station, I highly doubt they are gonna be a threat.

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Infirnex said:

You can actually see there is police.


Yeah I noticed that, but they looked just as helpless as the peddies. They didn't go off saying "catch that wackjob!" or something remotely intimidating.

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I've been laughing so hard at people's responses to this game since yesterday. I honestly did not think that everyone would be so offended by it. The way they talk, trying to prove their maturity by bashing it... Too funny. :) I don't really care for the game itself too much so far, but the responses all across the internet are simply priceless.

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I'm hearing reports that one of the developers is an actual honest to god neo-nazi, but haven't found a solid source. I'd recommend people be careful about who they give there money to if this game looked at all not shit.

Technician said:

Ironically, today's gaming media will make a bigger stink about killing women and PoC than the fact you are senselessly murdering anything with a pulse.

You can't even stop yourself typing out gamergate brain farts anymore can you? Fuck off nerd.

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Captain Red said:

You can't even stop yourself typing out gamergate brain farts anymore can you? Fuck off nerd.

I'm sorry if you can't accept we're past conservative talking points of senseless violence and it's effects on society, instead focusing on effects of violence against certain members of society. Just becasue you are sided with a political mentality, doesn't mean it's not the focal point of how things will be stigmatized in today's media. I was making fun of Jack Thompson and his religious talking heads long before he was laughed off the stage and replaced with the left's equivalent of projection and bullshit.


...And then he tries to poison the well without evidence with the most stock accusation:

I'm hearing reports that one of the developers is an actual honest to god neo-nazi, but haven't found a solid source.

Games are racist. #stopgamergate. At least you didn't claim the game was being developed by stormfront.

Touchdown said:

I've been laughing so hard at people's responses to this game since yesterday. I honestly did not think that everyone would be so offended by it. The way they talk, trying to prove their maturity by bashing it... Too funny. :) I don't really care for the game itself too much so far, but the responses all across the internet are simply priceless.

It's like we've learned nothing from Manhunt.

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Seems like a cynical and contrived attempt to create something "edgy" and intentionally controversial.

The Postal series did this in a way that was intelligent and tongue-in-cheek. I liked how Postal 2 was designed such that it was possible to complete in a non-violent way. I doubt many people played it that way, but it was a clever response to people who assert that video games cause violence.

This seems to be ripping off the same idea, except doing it in a "serious" way without any of that intelligence or thoughtfulness. I dunno, does anyone actually think this looks like a fun game at all? I just don't see the appeal.

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We're over 20 years past the the conclusion of lawsuits that once contested video games for having an emotional and psychological influence on people to do criminal things. How long does it take to evolve into the understanding that pleasure of killing in video games is apples and and the pleasure of killing real people is oranges? I find it hilariously ironic that the same people who will say things about a hypothetical moral boundary that games need to stay within are the same people who will fight with their last dying breath to protect themselves and the rest of the gamer community from the influence of Jack Thompson, Fox News, and Angry Moms Against Video Game Violence.

I mean, if you were actually shot, shot at, or know someone personally who has been shot in a spree shooting, and still play Doom 2 for some reason, then yes I'm sorry for all my sarcastic condoning of school shootings in the past. But if you're actually offended by this at this point in time and don't meet the aforementioned criteria, then you're a hypocrite. I mean, surely you have to question your own morals in the first level of Doom 2, where you kill two lowly zombiemen (that have a fifth of the health, a tenth of the speed, and half the damage dealt) before they even know you're in the game -- with an optional chainsaw no less!

A game is a game, people. Move along now.

EDIT: needless to say this game doesn't look any more interesting than a flight simulator where you get unlimited fuel and no airport to land in. The idea of funding a game where there's no adversaries to it is the real crime.

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For all we know this game could have some kind of commentary but the trailer is obviously made to inspire shock and awe. And we don't know if this game has consequences for the player's actions. Most articles I've seen gazed over this fact, but the trailer shows little evidence, too.

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Phml said:

This trailer couldn't have been released at a better time. In Paris we just had a guy erect a giant butt plug as an art piece, and the parallels between the reactions to either thing are as obvious as they are funny.

McCarthy, 69, told Le Monde on Friday that his artwork was indeed a Christmas tree, and admitted that a certain amount of lateral thinking was required to see a link between his sculpture and the festive season.

Sure...

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fraggle said:

The Postal series did this in a way that was intelligent and tongue-in-cheek. I liked how Postal 2 was designed such that it was possible to complete in a non-violent way. I doubt many people played it that way, but it was a clever response to people who assert that video games cause violence.

This seems to be ripping off the same idea, except doing it in a "serious" way without any of that intelligence or thoughtfulness. I dunno, does anyone actually think this looks like a fun game at all? I just don't see the appeal.

I think calling Postal intelligent is a little generous :P, but somewhere in that mess of loading screens and pee physics is the ingredients for a really good game. If it pulled back from 'Jokes that will make the PC police madâ„¢' and instead built the game as sort of a Deus Ex town edition where the player is given fairly mundane tasks to complete in any way the engine allows. Need pancakes for breakfast? You could go to the store and buy some. Or steal some. Or go to the local farm and harvest all the ingredients, then park the harvester in the barn and shoot the petrol tank causing the whole thing to go up in flames, and then cook the pancakes over the smoldering ruins. Basically, leave the player room to make their own assholish humor. Sort of like goat simulator, but fun for more then 10 minutes.

Technician said:

I'm sorry if you can't accept we're past conservative talking points of senseless violence and it's effects on society, instead focusing on effects of violence against certain members of society. Just becasue you are sided with a political mentality, doesn't mean it's not the focal point of how things will be stigmatized in today's media. I was making fun of Jack Thompson and his religious talking heads long before he was laughed off the stage and replaced with the left's equivalent of projection and bullshit.

Who's projecting? Nobody is having that discussion in this thread until you brought it up, like you do at every fucking opportunity. I've just lost my patience for your lazy knee jerk horseshit. You sputter the same inane whining about SJWs without being funny, clever or insightful, and you posts make me cringe the same way the asshole making the 'stick shift' joke in this video does. Can you put your vendetta on video games journalism on ice until the topic is actually about that?

My comments about the neo-nazi shit actually aren't related to your post, I just thought it interesting information about this game. The source was mumblings on SA but I found this which reefers to a far right anti-immigration group which some people are calling neo-nazis because nobody cares about the nuances of far right racists.

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Captain Red said:

I think calling Postal intelligent is a little generous :P

Everything's relative, though. Postal has a humorous and satirical side to it, something that looks like it's completely missing from this. Those are aspects that are endearing and would want someone to play the game (ie. it's excessively violent but in an amusing and fun way).

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Looks like a more gritty and less campy Postal game.

It also looks kinda fun to be honest, I'm not gonna buy it though because I don't really care.

-

Also, controversy sells.

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Looks like a lot of fun. The logo uses the Doom font too.

EDIT: Someone needs to mod in Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn into this when it comes out. That would be lolz.

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The trailer makes it look like the first postal, a 90's game about violence because
the character you controll somehow lost it and went postal...

in truth i see a big degradation in people their common sense, there are no humans in
these video games and you are not killing anything which lives... as a mather of fact,
they used to teach this to children when they where growing up end 90's and early 2000's.
If you think you are killing humans and living beings while playing video games, you clearly
are losing the line between reality and fantasy, reality and fiction...
A drawing of a human is not a human.

I am sick and tired of mentally unstable children playing adult video games without any
decent parent near them to monitor it. At least teach these kids (again) the difference between
reality and video game.

so to conclude on topic ;
To me there is no true line as long as the game is not made to terrorize or to be brainwashing
propaganda. Any healthy adult knows the difference between reality and lifeless pixels.

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FireFish said:

The trailer makes it look like the first postal, a 90's game about violence because
the character you controll somehow lost it and went postal...

in truth i see a big degradation in people their common sense, there are no humans in
these video games and you are not killing anything which lives... as a mather of fact,
they used to teach this to children when they where growing up end 90's and early 2000's.
If you think you are killing humans and living beings while playing video games, you clearly
are losing the line between reality and fantasy, reality and fiction...
A drawing of a human is not a human.

I am sick and tired of mentally unstable children playing adult video games without any
decent parent near them to monitor it. At least teach these kids (again) the difference between
reality and video game.

so to conclude on topic ;
To me there is no true line as long as the game is not made to terrorize or to be brainwashing
propaganda. Any healthy adult knows the difference between reality and lifeless pixels.


Everyone likes to blame the game or creator or whatever stupid excuses they can come up with to protect their frail over-sized ego instead of admitting they're shit parents that don't monitor their child's activities. It's all bullshit. Most of the time kids are fucked because of their parents, not games. That game looks fucking fun.

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People offended by this game have never played Grezzo 2.

This game needs a Hitler or Osama bin Laden collectible skins and grindcore in the background.

Seriously, the outrage around this game is fucking hilarious.

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