A clean analysis ; Gamergate.

[Bucket]

Phml said:

You may want to read up on censorship.

Leave it to the basement dwellers to conflate the semantic and pragmatic definitions of "censorship". Next you'll tell me that taxation is stealing... or that piracy isn't. You may want to read up on your deficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_language_impairment

Last I checked, you essentially ran away from the discussion, cherrypicking one minor argument or two and dodging everything else. Your strawmanning was already outdated then, and that was one month ago.

You accused white knights (and me) of poisoning the well. I accuse Gamergaters (and you) of dumping Evian in the septic tank. You are trying to legitimize a movement that was not only born out of slut shaming, but continues to be mainly about slut shaming. You're trying to make GG what it isn't, what it never was; you want people to forget how it came about in the first place. That's a battle you already lost. Nobody's ever going to forget. GG will never wash the stink of the Internet Hate Machine off of it. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER. You may address ethics when you mention EA buying journalists or people being fired over honest reviews, but you SURE AS FUCK aren't talking about #GamerGate. #Gamergate was, is, and always will be about misogyny. Have I drilled this into your head yet, or do I have to start copy-pasting?

The pile of links you post are evidence of nothing except your confirmation bias. As I said in the other thread, you're playing connect-the-dots with hearsay and context-free chatlogs. You fill in the logic gaps with character evidence ("they're all femnazis and white knights and this is exactly what they do"). You think derogatory labels are their own argument. In a nutshell, you have nothing. Nothing. Nope, not even that. That neither. Nothing, nothing, nothing.

YOU
HAVE
NOTHING.

[Captain Red]

My favorite part of all this is a browser plugin that replaces 'SJWs' with 'skeletons'.

[CorSair]

Bucket: We can't have any kind of conversation if you keep spinning Gamergate as a misogynistic movement, when the vocal voices are coming from women.

But if you want to keep it that way, be my guest. If you want to discuss that side, do it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

These folks allow ANY kind of discussion, even dissenting ones.

[Clonehunter]

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone is paying attention tot his. Really, just ignore it. It's not important, at all, and sometime next year, or even in a few months (Which may still be next year), this whole thing will have been forgotten and replaced by some new, even more lame, hashtag.

#BanMeanie

[Bucket]

CorSair said:

Bucket: We can't have any kind of conversation if you keep spinning Gamergate as a misogynistic movement, when the vocal voices are coming from women.

Describing exactly what #Gamergate was always and will always be about is not "spin". Phml and his ilk are conducting a whitewashing campaign and nobody is buying it. Funny the concept didn't come up in his extensive research of censorship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash_(censorship)

whitewashing is used to refer to an agent abandoning their tarnished identity and re-creating a new blank one,[5] in what is more widely known in Internet slang as sockpuppeting.

[Phml]

Leave it to the basement dwellers to conflate the semantic and pragmatic definitions of "censorship".

Sorry, you don't get to assume your self-centered fantasy land definitions for commonly accepted concepts are universally shared, and you especially don't get to assume your opponents share your misconceptions in order to refute their arguments. Once again, your blatant xenophobism is showing, fatso.

You accused white knights (and me) of poisoning the well.

That would be one point.

Then there's:

People have been exposed, heads have been rolling, and when the facts hurt your side your only defense mechanism is to derail the discussion by framing it as an Us vs Them situation, where "Them" is racist, misogynist, pedophile, whatever taboo word fits.

Flawed logic to the rescue: "some specific anonymous people on the Internet have said certain things! that means everyone who disagrees with us is part of that same hivemind and this invalidates any of their arguments!".

4chan makes a particularly nice scapegoat, because just about every other gaming outlet censors discussion around this. So if there's only one place where you can have that discussion, it's pretty obvious that's where most of the arguments will come from - good and bad.

There's a clique of journalists and indie devs financing each other on Patreon (website to make scheduled donations to individuals). Click on any name, and it's like playing this game where you start on a random Wikipedia article and try to reach another particular one in the fewest links.

Key people and judges in the IGF and Indiecade (important indie competitions, with cash prizes, and most importantly, exposure) have close friendships with several of the winners. Several journalists are at the same time PR people for particular games.

If collusion is what we want to talk about, the timing on articles defending whatever new flavor of the week retort journalists have concocted is interesting to say the least. 6 articles pushing the "gamers are dead" theme pop up the 28th August. The first non-videogame mainstream websites who picked up on the controversy are in the same media groups as videogame websites. Ties to a cult-like PR group named SilverString Media can be seen everywhere, with the names showing up in relation to that group being the same names involved in this debacle.

No rebuttal that I can see. Yelling real hard or repeating yourself is hardly convincing when I can't hear your words over the sound of you still running away.

The pile of links you post are evidence of nothing except your confirmation bias.

Eagerly waiting for your own evidence behind that claim.

The mental gymnastics are cute. Any link supporting GG is invalid, based on its support for GG. But the opposition is the one who solely uses derogatory labels as arguments!

I don't recall ever using the word "feminazi" in this context. I'm guessing you will try to weasel out of this by claiming the "you" in your post wasn't directed to me personally, even though the rest of your post clearly is.

[mrthejoshmon]

I read all this shit and I still can't see why anybody on either side cares.

Although it is funny to see people getting mad about it and throwing insults around, that is always entertaining.

[Phml]

I read all this shit and I still can't see why anybody on either side cares.

Every person I suspected to be profoundly immoral, be it a Doomworlder or a games journalist, turns out to be strongly anti-GG, and seeing all these people wear their hypocrisy on their sleeve is just too good. You're damn right I'm mad. I've been like a kid hopped up on sugar those last two months.

It's one thing to have intuitions about people, but seeing as it's in the back of your own mind, you tell yourself "maybe these guys aren't that bad, maybe this is just me, besides it's not like I have anything on them". It's another one entirely to see said gut feeling confirmed with these people enacting massive censorship, hate speech, racism, sexism, revisionism, and it keeps going on and on.

Understand I'm not telling you to believe any of this, I'm telling you *I* believe it. That's my reason for caring. It's the high you get from being right after years of believing something you can't prove. It's the biological thrill of seeing assholes finally held accountable for their actions. It's as petty as it is awesome.

I care little for GamerGate beyond that. Most of them are lefties willing to bend over to avoid being perceived as something bad, an idiotic reaction in my mind considering this is the kind of behavior that has let the people concerned get their structures of power in place. The cult of being offended and pinning blame on others as a lifestyle.

People like Bucket want to paint people like me as representative of GamerGate so they can claim this movement is full of neo-nazis or whatever trendy taboo they can think of. People like Bucket are, of course, "neutral", giving you their "objective" view of the situation. ;)

Meanwhile, everyone ignores CorSair's posts. Gosh, it's almost as if one side of the debate is desperately trying to avoid any level-headed discussion and instead purposefully focuses on the most extreme dissenters.

[CorSair]

mrthejoshmon said:

I read all this shit and I still can't see why anybody on either side cares.

Some videos I posted earlier. Just watch them and tell what you saw.

[Bucket]

Phml said:

Sorry, you don't get to assume your self-centered fantasy land definitions for commonly accepted concepts are universally shared, and you especially don't get to assume your opponents share your misconceptions in order to refute their arguments.

One day you'll grow up and discover that things like context matter, and words have different definitions under different topics, some more pertinent than others.

But let me address the substance of your other "points", such as it is.

1) There are no "heads rolling". People are leaving their homes and jobs to escape waves of rape and death threats. #Gamergate call these horrible events "victories".

2) 4chan and 8chan have both instated a "no Gamergate threads" policy, so I guess to you they've graduated from Scapegoat to Willing Pawn In The Feminist Agenda.

3) This may surprise you, but gaming journalists have day jobs. They have better things to do than lurk Reddit, 4chan and IRC. They do, however, have private industry forums where they confer with other professionals. If the topic was raised to write about #Gamergate, it's likely because their inboxes were bombarded by readers requesting they use their investigative skills on Zoe Quinn. What they found was not concrete evidence of corruption, but a sickening smear campaign. If I were to guess, they were all simultaneously inspired to write articles about how gaming is being taken over by hateful bigots - and rightfully so.

4) Your reference to SilverString Media makes me imagine Alex Jones in front of a spittle-soaked mic, ranting about Bilderburger and chemtrails or some such nonsense. Come the fuck on.

5) Your insistence that I read up on Indiecade and Patreon relationships to see how deep the rabbit hole goes is stupefying. Give me your arguments AFTER you've done your homework, not before. I'm not drinking your Kool-Aid for you.

6) People like you are getting all of your information on the subject from Imgur collages and Encyclopedia fucking Dramatica. Some pretty sad examples are in the thread YOU linked to. You might bleat "ad hominem", but all of those haphazard screenshot dumps have a commonality: NO FUCKING SMOKING GUN TO BE FOUND ANYWHERE. It's circumstantial evidence and nothing more.

7) But hey - let's go out on a limb and say every bit of this conspiracy is true, and it turns out this tangled web of corruption and nepotism is real. You know what all this means?? Nothing substantial, actually. Still small potatoes compared to EA and Mountain Dew, which SOME of us were talking about long before #Gamergate existed. I don't know about you, but I certainly was.

...

It's about time to bury this. Phml wants us all to believe that #Gamergate is not, and never was, about SEX FOR FAVORS. This has been the point that his peers have been hammering on for months. Those of us who claim that #Gamergate is about misogyny are shouted down by people like Phml and accused of revisionism. Well, ladies and gentlemen: I give you the genesis of #Gamergate. The movement was given the official name right here, in this tweet by Adam "Jayne" Baldwin. He invents the hashtag in response to the famous Five Guys video, also linked there. (That's right - a scandal called "Five Guys", which as any Gamergater will tell you, is all about one guy.)

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

Now, Phml, give me a simple answer. What are the first three words in that video? Three words are all I want from you. Post anything else besides those three words and everyone will know you're an equivocating coward. No more conspiracy bullshit, answer the fucking question.

Three words.

[mrthejoshmon]

Well isn't this a shitty situation.

I want to say "I support #gamergate" because looking at both sides has shown me which side is the better: the pro #gamergate side is clearly the best and most reasonable one in my eyes over the anti #gamergate side which just seems like a clusterfuck of bullshit.

Then again there is also some absolute degenerates on both sides (which is really the one of the very few counter arguments the anti #gamergate side has whilst they pretend they don't have some absolute whack jobs on their side).

-

Oh and this:

Bucket said:

Three words.

You try hard.

[Sokoro]

Then join the third side and proclaim that all of those people are bad humans who are different than you and deserve to stfu.

[Nomad]

Sokoro said:

Then join the third side and proclaim that all of those people are bad humans who are different than you and deserve to stfu.

Agreed since it's almost literally this:

[dew]

Phml said:

Every person I suspected to be profoundly immoral, be it a Doomworlder or a games journalist, turns out to be strongly anti-GG, and seeing all these people wear their hypocrisy on their sleeve is just too good. You're damn right I'm mad. I've been like a kid hopped up on sugar those last two months.

Phml-kun finds dew-chan mildly immoral at worst. <3

[Clonehunter]

Though I have to admit, I still don't see what's the problem with "sucking dick for favors." Women, and men, have done this for decades (Literal and non-literal). Game journalism sucks. Get over it.

This has nothing to do with SJWs or Zoe whoever, or msygony, or conspiracies, or whatever. It's just a shit storm created out of nothing so people can storm around, stroke their e-peens, be cruel and get away with it, waste time on the Internet arguing, and all getting their 15 minutes seconds of fame anywhere they can get a fat foot in the door. The only conspiracy here is that it's a conspiracy. "Pro 94/\/\3r9473" may have more sensible people in their community (ugh) than the other community (ugh), but it doesn't stop them from being morons by getting caught up in this shit. No one should care who is right and who is wrong. Being right is irrelevant. Being wrong is irrelevant. This is nothing more than the latest online circlejerk that will end, pass son, and be forgotten sooner than later. It won't change a goddamn thing about anything.

[mrthejoshmon]

I just looked through #gamergate on multiple social media and my good god are both sides of this shitstorm both retarded and cringe worthy.

What a bunch of toss.

I ain't going to be supporting any of these cringe machines, no fucking way.

[CorSair]

Seems Bucket dropped into kool-aid pond...

Sokoro said:

Then join the third side and proclaim that all of those people are bad humans who are different than you and deserve to stfu.

If it would be that easy, if only it would.

Fence sitters have been in very problematic situation, since when they try to comment in, if it favors anti-GG, they get flakked, if it favors pro-GG, then they got flakked, even harder. Ricky Camilleri, the liveshow host in Huffington Post, who even allowed pro-GGers come in, got flakked, and eventually, doxed.

Trying to build neutral ground has been very intimidating. Some anti-GGers have been pretty reasonable, one even posted about faker who tried to ride in fame train of GG. Her comment was even golded in r/KotakuinAction. What has other side done, may I ask?

@Clonehunter
If it just would be circlejerking. But there is certain aura that affects the free thought and artistic view. One artist in Larian Studios (Divinity series) was ordered to change the cover art. Why? Because of bare belly was too much for some folks. Forcing someone to make changes just because it is just tasteless for him/her? Fuck that shit.

[Clonehunter]

While I don't agree with that change either, I'm not sure what it has to do with GamerGate. It looks like something that's just being tacked on with a "Me Too!" sticker. Unless the reason for the change was directly linked somehow.

[BlueFeena]

Bucket said:

1) There are no "heads rolling". People are leaving their homes and jobs to escape waves of rape and death threats. #Gamergate call these horrible events "victories".

Except for the fact that hopefully everyone now knows that most game journalists are full of it and untalented hacks like Zoey Quinn will never get another game published or taken seriously ever again.

Bucket said:

2) 4chan and 8chan have both instated a "no Gamergate threads" policy, so I guess to you they've graduated from Scapegoat to Willing Pawn In The Feminist Agenda.

Aren't you the one who, only a few posts ago, was implying that no censorship was taking place? Are you even checking your own arguments?

Bucket said:

3) This may surprise you, but gaming journalists have day jobs. They have better things to do than lurk Reddit, 4chan and IRC. They do, however, have private industry forums where they confer with other professionals. If the topic was raised to write about #Gamergate, it's likely because their inboxes were bombarded by readers requesting they use their investigative skills on Zoe Quinn. What they found was not concrete evidence of corruption, but a sickening smear campaign. If I were to guess, they were all simultaneously inspired to write articles about how gaming is being taken over by hateful bigots - and rightfully so.

Their day job is being journalists. Don't give me this hooey about how they don't have time to do investigative research or trudge around on places on the internet that they'd rather not go to. Speaking of which, that's a nice contradiction: They don't have time / can't be bothered to do any digging, yet they dig up a "smear campaign". Huh?

Bucket said:

6) People like you are getting all of your information on the subject from Imgur collages and Encyclopedia fucking Dramatica. Some pretty sad examples are in the thread YOU linked to. You might bleat "ad hominem", but all of those haphazard screenshot dumps have a commonality: NO FUCKING SMOKING GUN TO BE FOUND ANYWHERE. It's circumstantial evidence and nothing more.

A lot of this information is compiling on ED because it's being scrubbed from everywhere else. I'm also getting the impression that you're intentionally ignoring any evidence that suggests immoral professional relationships on the part of game developers and journalists. Those collages that you speak are compiled of things that umpteen dozen people have said at some point or another and demonstrates a connection.

Bucket said:

7) But hey - let's go out on a limb and say every bit of this conspiracy is true, and it turns out this tangled web of corruption and nepotism is real. You know what all this means?? Nothing substantial, actually. Still small potatoes compared to EA and Mountain Dew, which SOME of us were talking about long before #Gamergate existed. I don't know about you, but I certainly was.

Actually, I've been hearing about "Evil EA" and "Evil Activision" long before any of GamersGate happened. The difference? Zoey Quinn is one of the chosen people. She's an indie liberal game developer, and as such, she can do no harm, cannot be corrupt, and any evidence that suggests that liberal indie game developers have one of the biggest circle jerks on the planet, both with themselves and journalists, must be crushed. Anyone who claims that any immorality has taken place is in cohoots with Snowball; execute them immediately!

Bucket said:

It's about time to bury this.

:|

:|

:|

Bucket said:

Phml wants us all to believe that #Gamergate is not, and never was, about SEX FOR FAVORS. This has been the point that his peers have been hammering on for months. Those of us who claim that #Gamergate is about misogyny are shouted down by people like Phml and accused of revisionism. Well, ladies and gentlemen: I give you the genesis of #Gamergate. The movement was given the official name right here, in this tweet by Adam "Jayne" Baldwin. He invents the hashtag in response to the famous Five Guys video, also linked there. (That's right - a scandal called "Five Guys", which as any Gamergater will tell you, is all about one guy.)

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

Now, Phml, give me a simple answer. What are the first three words in that video? Three words are all I want from you. Post anything else besides those three words and everyone will know you're an equivocating coward. No more conspiracy bullshit, answer the fucking question.

Three words.

This is horribly incoherent and I can't even figure out what you're trying to say or accuse someone of.


By the way, here's a nice little set of articles I collected over the past month detailing some of the GamersGate stuff. In no particular order:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/23/How-sloppy-biased-video-games-reporting-almost-destroyed-a-CEO
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/What-drives-the-angry-feminist-journalists-slating-GamerGate
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/09/15/The-GamerGate-movement-is-making-terrific-progress-don-t-stop-now
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart

On a final note: The reason why this is a such a big deal is because it demonstrates a frightening level of political correctness and liberalism that has been seeping into the game development industry for over a decade now. Similar to what Corsair stated above, too much skin on girl? Evil. All male hero cast? Evil. A video game doesn't portray corporations as the great satan or promote at least one liberal agenda? Evil. If you don't believe that the game development industry is being taken over by a bunch of Hollywood-esque politically correct lefties, the previous university I attended has several courses on game development. One of the classes, from what I know of -- I never took it, mind you -- dealt with "socialist and capitalist practices" in the game industry. Wtf? And I wonder why most of the aspiring game developers these days are morons who can't code their way out of a paper bag.

Stop politicizing video games. Quit jamming this liberal political correctness crap down my throat. I don't care about your inner pain, I don't want to hear your agenda, stop telling me I'm evil because I'm straight and white and male and have been playing video games since Doom!

[CorSair]

Clonehunter said:

While I don't agree with that change either, I'm not sure what it has to do with GamerGate. It looks like something that's just being tacked on with a "Me Too!" sticker. Unless the reason for the change was directly linked somehow.

Did you check the time when it was posted? And just saying: This has been brewing for long time.

.:edit:.
and just to know, there are not only ONE side that that also gets threats. Those three just got more coverage.
http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/

Also, this:https://medium.com/@evanderkoogh/so-i-read-the-1500-mentions-anita-sarkeesian-and-brianna-wu-got-in-the-last-20-hours-f0bbc27f3ac4

[Breezeep]

I'm not sure about where this thread is going.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/gamergate

[Clonehunter]

@CorSair: Weirdly enough, I figured it was old with my first sentence, and then I realized my second sentence made little to no sense, although I don't know how long "GamerGate" has been a thing. But otherwise, yah I know stuff like this has been going on for sometime. I guess I'm ignoring it because I'm tired of it. Maybe I just have a bad outlook, which in itself isn't good.

And those links? Blech, people just need calm the fuck down and stop using this as a time to act out without consequence.

And I totally agree with BlueFeena's observation. Now, I'm not against "minority" characters or whatever, but I don't see the point of making it your modus operandi or making as vocal point about it, as if somehow that makes you better or people should respect you more, or if a game with a Mexican-Black Transgender Hipster-clothes wearing PETA member is more artistic than the same story with an American White Male.

Also, while I though Max Payne 3 was pretty good, I'm still a little transfixed why the plot was political starring "Evil Conservative Big Bad" and "Evil Right-Wing Paramilitary Group." Granted, the story was pretty meh anyways, and was good mostly for the refined gameplay. But maybe SA politics are different, or I'm saying something incredibly stupid.

[SuperflyJohnson]

"rational"wiki

[h.brick]

@SuperFlyJohnson: if you're knocking Bucket's choice of source, Breitbart.com isn't the best counter-source. Andrew Breitbart had no qualms teaming up with discredited reporter James O'Keefe and flat-out lying about ACORN five years ago. Today, they're still a conservative-spin blog. Asking them about womens' issues is like asking the KKK about affirmative action.

Not that this incident is related to #GamerGate, but you may as well cite the Koch Brothers themselves if you're gonna go as low as Breitbart.

[Mr. Freeze]

SuperflyJohnson said:

"RW is only rational if they take my side!"

heh

[CorSair]

h.brick said:

Not that this incident is related to #GamerGate, but you may as well cite the Koch Brothers themselves if you're gonna go as low as Breitbart.

So... Being right-wing, means that issue isn't there or valid?

.... Riiiiiight.(Here's the leaker of the mails, by the way. Source: APGNation. Forgot to add that one.)

[geekmarine]

I just love the notion that if we pretend there is no bias in the world, and that discrimination never happens, that somehow magically makes the world conform to our wishes. Actually, that may honestly be the fault of political correctness - because no one's willing to admit to discrimination when it does happen. There are times when I almost wish discrimination were socially acceptable, so people would just own up to it when they do it. Back in the day, we could at least know where people stood, even if they did have terrible views. Now we have people with those same terrible views, but they won't admit that they have them. Like, I'd rather associate with a person who just came out and said, "I think women have no place in video games!" rather than pretending to support equality but constantly resist any challenge to the norm. In one case, I believe you're wrong, but in the other, not only do I believe you're wrong, but you're lying to me in my face, too.

To illustrate what I mean, there's those studies where if job applicants have "black" sounding names, employers will be less likely to hire than if they have "white" sounding names, regardless of whether or not the employer admits to being racist - and they'll justify it by qualifications or whatnot, even if the "white" sounding applicant is less qualified. Why not just admit what you're doing rather than hiding behind excuses which can easily be seen through?

[h.brick]

CorSair said:

So... Being right-wing, means that issue isn't there or valid?

It doesn't mean that. Point being: Breitbart has a history of not giving a fuck about journalism ethics -- which makes it ironic that someone's citing them in a debate about journalism ethics.

[FireFish]

i remain with my opening post as an objective point of view condensing this from its origin
a long time ago, up to the attempts to engineer this into a scandal beyond all of that.

However i will add this observation ;
Many of the 'scandal' supporters seem to think they are superior and more intelligent decent humans
while they themselves are insulting, attacking, mentaly abusing, discriminating, and targetting anybody
they encounter who does not share the same opinion, even the most innocent of bystanders passing by
are enough for them to repeat this process of insulting, attacking, mentaly abusing, trolling, and acting
superior. The levels of hypocricy in that behaviour are plain demented and they even seem 'ill'.

the contradictions and hypocricy are just beyond any levels of common logic.
Lets protect an uncensored internet where people can post everything they want, including illegaly
posted private information of anybody they want which ends up in the hands of suicide trolls, psychopats,
photoshoppers, and worse. However this is unacceptable and what they are fighting against. taking down
illegaly obtained private information and pictures of somebody targeted by all those types of amoral demented
criminals because he or she possibly cheated on his or her lover are however evil criminals censoring the
internet and getting paid with sex to write reviews and those against this concept are feminist nazi's and
amoral sub-par and dumb irrational worthless humans which should be trolled, insulted, photoshopped and worse.
Any angle and influence will do to try and make this into an engineered 'gate' scandal.

basically nobody can ever blame or rightfully insult anybody taking the free choice to express an opinion
which states ; 'this is not worth my time', or, 'knowing where this came from, no !'.

Please note that i am trying to remain objective and created this thread to attempt and keep it
decent around this subject, away from unrelated topics.

[BlueFeena]

h.brick said:

It doesn't mean that. Point being: Breitbart has a history of not giving a fuck about journalism ethics -- which makes it ironic that someone's citing them in a debate about journalism ethics.

I think Breitbart's just fine. :) I visit it quite a lot for non-gaming related stuff, but that's beside the point.

Also, you do realize that the email chain that Milo cites is corroborated by the APG article Corsair posted, right?