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Oxyde

3 heures d'agonie 2 RC1

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Hello everyone!

It is with pleasure that I present you the second installment of the 3HA series!

If you are not familiar with the first episode of 3 heures d'agonie, get a glimpse here now!
3 heures d'agonie 2 is a full-scale 32-maps megawad designed for Vanilla compatibility. While the first episode lacked this compatibility, this one has been 200% tested with DOS and ChocoRenderLimits to ensue playability. :)
Like the first episode, it was designed by members of the French Doom Community, and two guests, namely Darkwave0000 who returns for a second blast, the newcomers Memfis, who you all know very well, and his friend Plut! ;)

So there's nothing extremely fancy in here, right?! Well, don't forget that these maps were made with one specific constraint: Make your map under 3 hours.



Now the cards are in your hands, it's up to you to use them wisely. :)
Enjoy the DOWNLOAD LINK!

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MAP02 has the worst use of demons and specters I've ever seen.

But the rest of the wad is good, so don't take me as a hater.

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Neat. I'll add this to my megawad que (Quite a lot has been released this year!)

What launcher accepts the .ico file?

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joe-ilya said:

MAP02 has the worst use of demons and specters I've ever seen.

But the rest of the wad is good, so don't take me as a hater.


Please develop as to why do you think that?
I am pretty sure the whole point of Spectres is to be deadly in the dark, which is, I guess, why you think they're poorly used.

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MAP01 - Fairly simple gameplay, but it was an elegant opener.
MAP02 - Awesome, I've enjoyed it a lot. Very nice visuals and atmosphere and the gameplay flowed well. The only, VERY minor complaint: Overusage of default ceiling height (128) - but what would I want from a speedmap.
MAP03 - Not bad at all for a 3-hour speedmap, but it feels weak and there are errors; like the exit-unlocking switch that can be pressed from ground level prematurely, minor alignment issues (I'm completely okay with them, though) and the secret-nonsecret? Easy one, but played okay. Default music track and some bland walls drag the map down.
MAP04 - Another pretty good map, I like the compact layout, aesthetics and also gameplay, appropriate for a classic style non-MAP01 early slot.

More to come. I'm enjoying the wad so far. And with the exception of MAP03, I like the monster / weapon / difficulty progression a lot.

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Oxyde said:

Please develop as to why do you think that?
I am pretty sure the whole point of Spectres is to be deadly in the dark, which is, I guess, why you think they're poorly used.

They're used near that shotgun pillar and getting the jump there is almost impossible unless you kill them with the pistol.
Some are too high/low to reach some are even blocked with the 'block lines' or behind walls.

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Kappes Buur said:

La page n'existe pas ou plus !

I guess you removed it because the first pwad wasn't any good?


JC recently edited his server, thus resulting in a few links dying. You can download it here. :)

@ Joe: Sure, infinite height ennemies is a pain, but it's always been like that and it has even become part of Doom's meta so I don't see anything wrong here.
Stuck monsters? Didn't see any, please point me to them so I can fix them. Also which engine are you using? This might have an impact.

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Oxyde said:

@ Joe: Sure, infinite height ennemies is a pain, but it's always been like that and it has even become part of Doom's meta so I don't see anything wrong here.
Stuck monsters? Didn't see any, please point me to them so I can fix them. Also which engine are you using? This might have an impact.

The lift block is missing a texture.

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Sure, infinite height ennemies is a pain, but it's always been like that and it has even become part of Doom's meta so I don't see anything wrong here.


Gonna side with Joe on the sentiment. Just because there's a limitation tied to the game doesn't mean we should handwave situations where it becomes especially problematic, as is the case here. I feel the opposite, that ideally people should consider these limitations when mapping and take proper care not to create needlessly frustrating scenarios.

There's so many ways it could be more userfriendly here. There could be no demons. The shotgun pillar could be lowered with a switch action on it (you could even make it lower super slowly to keep the original intended way to get the weapon most efficient, if that's a concern). The shotgun could be anywhere else. There's nothing very fun nor challenging about this situation as if IMHO, either you take the time to plink away at two demons with your puny pistol, or you take the chance to be blocked in your jump by enemies you can't even see. Risk of death is close to zero either way, it's just a timesink, a tiny one but a timesink nonetheless.

Map was fun otherwise!

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The 3 hours rule was actually rather loose and mainly concerned the layout. You could continue working on gameplay and details for hours more. ("Build time : 3 hours for layout + gameplay, 7 hours for architecture + details")

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Phml said:

Gonna side with Joe on the sentiment. Just because there's a limitation tied to the game doesn't mean we should handwave situations where it becomes especially problematic, as is the case here. I feel the opposite, that ideally people should consider these limitations when mapping and take proper care not to create needlessly frustrating scenarios.

There's so many ways it could be more userfriendly here. There could be no demons. The shotgun pillar could be lowered with a switch action on it (you could even make it lower super slowly to keep the original intended way to get the weapon most efficient, if that's a concern). The shotgun could be anywhere else. There's nothing very fun nor challenging about this situation as if IMHO, either you take the time to plink away at two demons with your puny pistol, or you take the chance to be blocked in your jump by enemies you can't even see. Risk of death is close to zero either way, it's just a timesink, a tiny one but a timesink nonetheless.

Map was fun otherwise!


I was fully aware of the monsters' size but I didn't think of it as a major problem, hence why I kept it that way! Solid suggestions you got there! I will work on this for the next release, thanks!

@Ribbiks: Yes, like Memfis sais, Darkwave spent 3 hours on the layout, then 7 hours doing the rest. It's an impressive layout for only 3 hours, but that kind of breaks the idea of 3HA, as people like me designed their map in 3 hours, details and items included!
But hey, I'm not gonna bitch, this map is fantastic and rather epic. :)

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ENDOOM has a misspeling.
It says "If you want more informations" instead of "If you want more information".

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On map29 there are no lower textures on sector 158, I guess Doom Builder removed them (hate when that happens!).

I agree with Oxyde that Darkwave's 10 hour effort feels a little out of place here, that's not really speedmapping anymore...

joe-ilya said:

Missing texture on MAP07 :
http://i.imgur.com/U6TDU3V.png

Hmm, this happens with Boom compatibility but works fine with vanilla compatibility. I guess Boom changed the way tag 667 works?

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After MAP05 thing are getting really bad, It almost feels as a knockback on 1024abc minus health.
The good stuff kicks back in on MAP32 after that it turns to shit again but then the good stuff kicks back in again on MAP24-25 and MAP28-30.

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BlackFish said:

http://imgur.com/8niKcOy

Map03 has an exploit where you can press the red key switch by accident down below. Perhaps make the switch also require the key to hit it?


I am not sure if it's intended as a speedrun trick or an oversight, will be forwarded to Subject_119, thanks!

joe-ilya said:

After MAP05 thing are getting really bad, It almost feels as a knockback on 1024abc minus health.
The good stuff kicks back in on MAP32 after that it turns to shit again but then the good stuff kicks back in again on MAP24-25 and MAP28-30.


Once again, I'm going to have to ask you: Why do you think some of these maps are no good? What, do you think, could be improved? :) Just saying the maps suck doesn't really help the authors.

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Oxyde said:

Once again, I'm going to have to ask you: Why do you think some of these maps are no good? What, do you think, could be improved? :) Just saying the maps suck doesn't really help the authors.

You're surronded with monsters, there are very annoying PE, LS,AV and hitscanners, almost no cover or health but if there is, it's a bunch of medkits when it should be a soulsphere with a bunch of medkits.
MAP07 was especially painful because there are a shiton of pain sectors, along with the monster mess.

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You haven't explained why that is bad either Joe. Is it because you find that frustrating, or something else? Just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it sucks. You did this with Obsidian and my maps too. Try to be more constructive with your criticism, else we aren't going to listen to you.

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I'm up to map 19 (missed the secret levels), and so far it's great (altought the last 2 maps weren't really for my taste). Good job guys.

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General Rainbow Bacon said:

You haven't explained why that is bad either Joe. Is it because you find that frustrating, or something else? Just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it sucks. You did this with Obsidian and my maps too. Try to be more constructive with your criticism, else we aren't going to listen to you.


People are doing the same with my maps, so I thought it would be correct to do the same.

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MAP05 - Although there's nothing specially impressive in either visuals or gameplay, I liked the level, it's up to par with my preferred quality - by that I mean, if I was able to make maps like this one, I'd be happy enough with myself, and I'd be happy to play such maps. It's something between oldschool and newschool, looking okay and being pleasant to play through.
MAP06 - There's too much "heartless" orthogonality for my tastes. It turned out worse that the previous map for me. Probably because MAP05 kind of "feels" like a place, while MAP06 stays rather abstract and with a rusty dark theme. It plays well, though.
MAP07 - A well designed Memfis map, I liked it thoroughly. Visuals and structure are nice, gameplay appropriately challenging as always. Good idea how I can decide to snipe monsters from the start room, or let them be and get a harder challenge later.
MAP08 - Hm. A short slaughter setpiece with not enough powerful weapons, relying on infighting and maneuvering. Not bad, but I wouldn't bother trying for an UV-max on my casual playthrough.
MAP09 - I liked the start area, but then I was strongly displeased by the map's symmetrical gameplay. Each of the branches could have featured a different kind of path and traps. The HK part in particular should have been varied on each side, and the whole chaingunner part could have been replaced with something better too.
MAP10 - Quite a lot of room-room-corridor-room structure, doorfights etc., not an ideal way to structure a map. It didn't really play bad, though. Even the red key room provided an imperfect, but good enough fight. I liked the troll door opening into a wall and revealing a trap, it's better than just keep the door down and open a trap. The rusted details worked well IMO, even though they were pretty unnecessary and parts of the map had ugly texture clashes. Secrets in this map were rather horrendous, specially the plasma (no hint except for automap).
MAP11 - Sid has improved a bit since 20 Years of Doom. Nice visuals and slightly more free gameplay. But I didn't like how towards the end of the map (since those closets before blue door), there was a complete overabundance of ammo and lots of symmetry. I disliked the final arena fight, Masterminds can easily infight each other and the symmetrical hitscanner branches were totally redundant. On the other hand, the way to exit was somewhat impressive, destroying the core didn't feel forced or unnatural like RomeroHead exits tend to be.

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joe-ilya said:

People are doing the same with my maps, so I thought it would be correct to do the same.

Wow okay dude.

Please go away now.

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