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Springy

Blasphemer discussion

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I had plans for making some sprites, but I still don't know when I will actually get time to work on them. You will probably have other sprites by then.

My sprite set was going to be interrelated with the sorcerer.
Just going to share some of this before it becomes completely moot.

Sorcerer: a gnomish bent-over alchemist type, with candles in his hair. He has been
experimenting with using techno-magic to alter animals. He created most of the monsters that inhabit this realm.

Kept changing my mind about what he rode, just that it was not a serpent. I was favoring him riding a little burro, because it just seemed appropriate.
It of course would be a techo-magic modified burro.

Maulotaur: Was a bull before it was modified. I was leaning heavily towards
monsters that clearly were animals. The bull had some techno-magic on its horns,
and some other modifications (but no hands). Unfortunately, now I cannot remember all the attacks and the appropriate sprite design I was planning.

Do not know when I will get time to do anything, having DoomLegacy and several other projects in progress that need finishing.

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The Blasphemer github has not had a commit since 2013, is it intended as a mirror of old code, is the repository elsewhere, or has any new work on Blasphemer just not been committed?

I could potentially setup an automated build process which an spit out WADs and upload them, similar to what FreeDoom does.

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Wasn't very active of the forums as of late, sorry.

MrFibble: hey, glad you like the progresses! i don't know about the wand, maybe it was intentional, or maybe is just bad perspective.

wesleyjohnson: when it happens man, glad you got interested at least ;)

GhostlyDeath: it just wasn't committed yet, i was pretty busy as of late, so i still wasn't able to learn how git work to make a proper fork\pull. Any help would be greatly appreciated, if you have a github account then i can add you to contributors list.

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Cacowad said:

GhostlyDeath: it just wasn't committed yet, i was pretty busy as of late, so i still wasn't able to learn how git work to make a proper fork\pull. Any help would be greatly appreciated, if you have a github account then i can add you to contributors list.


You might want to tag the old commit perhaps with something such as "last-google-code" which would be:

git tag "last-google-code" c57bf0a19cd8e776a139e7e6abefc5bcd4930d1d
I do have a GitHub account (https://github.com/GhostlyDeath), however I tend to not use Git or GitHub. Thus, I lack experience with it.

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Is it possible to have in the first thread the link to the latest version of Blasphemer?

I wanted to make some changes in my level using the last resources.

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Have your palette changed since 0.1.5? I played a little bit of Heretic with it and discovered problems.

[edit]

Anyway, I've recreated your palette from scratch and made a new colormap that fades like a Raven colormap instead of a Doom colormap.



Photoshop source included.

downloab

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7KVa3rJCvDDTHNfUDFxalVJWDQ/view?usp=sharing

More sounds to replace those missing, already pre-waded up and ready to merge.

Honestly. My favorites out of the bunch here are the powered up "Skullrod" and the Normal "Skullrod". Unfortunately, this sound itself in particular took a disappointing quality dive when downsampled to unsigned 8-bit. But I can throw the version before downsampling up if anybody wants to hear the difference between the two.

Tried converting all the sounds I could to 8-bit, but it might take some slight editing to get the volume right. I'm not the greatest with that. Try em out and let me know what you think.

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Welp, i went missing from the forums for a while, sorry that i made you wait a response:

Angry Saint: you can use the github link while we wait springy to update the op. Additionally, i'll update the build with your new level as soon as possible.

Da Werecat: no i don't think the pallette never changed, and you played heretic with it? as to use heretic as a pwad? if so all the textures would be probably messed up. i'll try the colormap and let you know.

SuperSomariDX: again, thank you, more sounds are always a welcomed addition, i'll try to include those where they seems more fit once i update the build.

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Cacowad said:

as to use heretic as a pwad?

I took the palette-related lumps from Blasphemer and made a PWAD with them.

Cacowad said:

if so all the textures would be probably messed up.

Nah, they weren't messed up. If they were, you'd have a very serious problem, because the palettes should be compatible between Heretic and Blasphemer, at least to a certain degree. The Blasphemer palette is decent in this regard. What I wanted to complain about is this:

http://i.imgur.com/DTzXwk4.png

Some colors fade badly. Plus, in Heretic many things that should glow - don't, and making them all desaturated in the dark is like adding insult to injury. The difference:

http://i.imgur.com/9wims5y.png

Also, I think your TINTTAB is broken.

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A bunch of grey gradients:


Then a bunch of colors over them:


Either solid colors or gradient adjustment layers, mostly the latter. In the case of recreating an old palette all these things should be carefully tweaked (although a 100% perfect match is unlikely, unless you're a robot).

The fading gradient should be shoved under the colors:


The result is that equally dark colors are being treated equally within each color block, whether they're dark because they're dark, or because they were faded. It minimizes unwanted colors "borrowed" from other color ranges.

Quantizing to the palette (I'm generating the palette from the same canvas by taking one clean row and saving it as a RAW file with the .act extension):


Some unappealing garbage there.

If I was making a new palette, I'd tweak it until it quantizes well, but in this case I just quantized the offending blocks separately, without the unwanted colors:


If you apply the fading over the colors, you'll get something like the current Blasphemer colormap, or the Doom colormap:

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Interesting. I wonder what it looks like algorithmically.

The Doom colormap was generated with this algorithm:

#define	NUMLIGHTS	32

	for (c=0;c<256;c++)
	{
		red = *palsrc++;
		green = *palsrc++;
		blue = *palsrc++;

		red = (red*(NUMLIGHTS-l)+NUMLIGHTS/2)/NUMLIGHTS;
		green = (green*(NUMLIGHTS-l)+NUMLIGHTS/2)/NUMLIGHTS;
		blue = (blue*(NUMLIGHTS-l)+NUMLIGHTS/2)/NUMLIGHTS;

		lightpalette[l][c] = BestColor(red,green,blue,palette,0,255);

	}
So if the code above corresponds roughly to "fading over colors", what would correspond to "fading under colors"?

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There's no code, I'm not a programmer. It's all done with layers in Photoshop.

The color layers have "Color" blending. This blending type preserves the tones of the underlying image, while applying hues and saturation levels from the "Color" layer. Since the fading is applied before colors, saturation is preserved everywhere. It also allows tricks like the yellows from the sixth row turning red as they fade.

Things like that require more careful color management while creating the graphics though. Fading the Doom palette the same way results in saturated red imp teeth and other fun stuff.

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Da Werecat said:

Since the fading is applied before colors, saturation is preserved everywhere.

As I understand color theory, "saturation" is how much white is (not) mixed with a color -- fully saturated is a pure color and at the other extreme you get pure white.

But in your "fading applied under" image, in the red-to-white ramp, the colors near white are becoming red, hence the saturation is not "preserved" (kept the same) rather it is being increased.

Also the yellows which become red are surely changing hue. I don't understand that -- what kind of process makes yellows turn into red, but does not turn blues into greens or stuff like that ?

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Desaturating can also be seen as bringing the R, G, and B values closer to their average, so we could imagine something where it instead brings them further away from it. A slightly reddish white would become more red, and if a yellow is more reddish than greenish, the process would make it even more so.

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Well, technically, if I had a color ramp that goes from dark greens to bright reds, these bright reds would still fade to dark greens. Here's the image before the colors are applied:



Each color block is treated differently. The aforementioned yellow block is being colored in such a way that darker colors have reddish hue, while the brighter colors are yellow. Red block is the only one that has 255 0 0 applied to its entirety, all other blocks use more complex overlays.

It's not really "fair" to treat colors like that, as it doesn't lead to natural fading. For example, if we had a pure white (255 255 255) in two separate color ramps by some mistake, one of the whites could fade to black through blue, the other through red. It makes no sense, as it's the same color, and it should fade through grey. But such tricks allow for much less colors degrading into browns and greys as they fade. In a game with color diminishing it can make a lot of difference.

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Da Werecat said:

It's not really "fair" to treat colors like that, as it doesn't lead to natural fading. For example, if we had a pure white (255 255 255) in two separate color ramps by some mistake, one of the whites could fade to black through blue, the other through red. It makes no sense, as it's the same color, and it should fade through grey. But such tricks allow for much less colors degrading into browns and greys as they fade. In a game with color diminishing it can make a lot of difference.

Ok, I understand now, and certainly think any technique to improve color fading should be explored and considered.

Isn't there is a risk though that some sprites or textures will look weird if they use certain colors which are fairly close at full brightness, but fade in different ways?

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andrewj said:

Ok, I understand now, and certainly think any technique to improve color fading should be explored and considered.

Isn't there is a risk though that some sprites or textures will look weird if they use certain colors which are fairly close at full brightness, but fade in different ways?

Yeah, though honestly that can happen with basically any colormap, no matter how you create it. A good example is the blue ramp in Doom's original colormap. The medium-to-dark blues fade into themselves and look correct, but because the light blues have less saturation (due to being so bright, mainly) the colormap abruptly turns them to gray, which makes those colors mostly worthless due to their colormapping hideousness outside of fullbright-only scenarios.

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This has monsters ?!??

Every time i downloaded the Blasphemer wad i ended up with a game which always sent me to Map01 and whenever i cheated to other maps it showed me floating red placeholder smiley monsters and such... (0_o)

Time to download the experimental builds then !

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Dang, i'm back! in the next few days should be able to update the build, sorry for the absence, between exams and family reunions i was a bit short of time.

FireFish: welp, it has a couple more now! more will come in time.

EDIT: it is just me, or the de werecat's pallette\playpal\colormap made the dark sectors really, really dark? some sectors has become just plain black when around 96\80

Also angrysaint new map crash zdoom for whatever reason, i'll try to see what i can do about it.

EDIT2: wait, i may have messed up, since AS level load fine as a stand alone


Nevermind, i messed up, next version should be up tomorrow.

EDIT3: Aaaand the new version is up, same link as before.

what's new?
-New playpal, colormap and tinttab lumps by Da Werecat
-Various sounds (stfhit,blssht,phosht,phopow,ramphit,ramrain,bounce,hrnsht,stfcrk) by SuperSomariDX
-Revised version of e1m1 by Angry Saint

And that's all for now, hopefully next update will contain an updated version of e1m2 (a bit less dark than what actually is) and a new chimera born from Samian's maps.

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Cacowad said:

EDIT: it is just me, or the de werecat's pallette\playpal\colormap made the dark sectors really, really dark? some sectors has become just plain black when around 96\80

Well, the Doom algorithm leaves the darkest colormap with some grey. Heretic has the darkest colormap as pitch black, so I did the same.

Overall fading curve might be slightly different, I didn't spend a lot of time fine-tuning it.

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You sirs, are awesome! Yes, all of you. Now thanks to HorrorMovieGuy we are really close to DM ready! The updated version is ready, but for some reason it fails to upload...

I'll edit the post once the file is online.


EDIT: new version is up: https://github.com/Blasphemer/blasphemer/wiki/Experimental-build%28s%29

new stuff:
Various weapons sounds fix by SuperSomariDX
New player sprites by HorrorMovieGuy

@CWolfRu: your statues are not in this version yet, i need to find a place for them... as key markers perhaps? I need to try it out.

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