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Springy

Blasphemer discussion

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Cacowad said:

@CWolfRu: your statues are not in this version yet, i need to find a place for them... as key markers perhaps? I need to try it out.

Well, those... priest-like (maybe?) statues really supposed to be key markers.

Knight-like ones are something like torches.

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I noticed earlier today that in the Heretic files there's a portrait of Corvus with many different colors. I don't know what what point in the game those are used(Deathmatch?), but I thought I'd make these to go along with the player sprite:


On a side note, my sister insists that he looks like Nathan Explosion, so I nicknamed him Nathan for the time being :p

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Could a recolored version of the player sprite be used for an enemy sprite?

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If you mean the original heretic player, no.

If you mean the blasphemer player, well, yes, but would it make confusion in cooperative?

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I suggested before that we made the ophidian a skeletal version of the player, so It's like the ghost of other blasphemers or something. But I'm not sure if that would be a good idea, since the ophidian is larger than the player.

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Even if the ophidian is taller, I think using a skeletal version of this new player sprite would be worthwhile simply to help the game reach SP functionality.

By the way, does the addition of the new player sprite mean that Blasphemer is a functional MP game at last?

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It is almost fully funcional, regarding sprites we are currently missing: powered staff, crystal geode, both phoenix road ammo, tranformed player sprites and weapon.
In order:
powered staff: bigprojectalone posted a version of the talons that had both powered and not powered states, but the hosting service deleted them some time ago. for some reason i can't register on the zdoom forums to contact him again, so if someone could it would be really appreciated.

crystal geode: i didn't noticed it was missing until dragonmorpheus did his mausoleum; i think we could use a recolor of the ammo for the dragon claw as a temporary placeholder while we work for a replacement.

phoenix road's ammo: something to go with the new road? maybe entwined spirits?

morph ovum's transformation and special beak weapon: this is the big one, another full set for the morph ovum. We could get away by shrinking the player sprite and thus making it a "dwarf" and setting the weapon sprites to be the talons... It would be obviously a (bad) placeholder, but it would make Blasphemer DM ready.

Regardless, we are very close to be DM ready.
As a side note google code has closed for good now, so every link redirecting to it will not be functioning anymore. This include the roadmap and some other info files that could have been deleted for good, since i can't find them with the files exported to github. I will make my research on the matter tomorrow, but if someone know a way to recover them please let me know.

PS: Btw HorrorMovieGuy, those portraits a really good, i will add them as soon as possible. On the matter, i always thought they were leftovers from a doom-style HUD that was cut at later development, probably to make space for the inventory. regarding the possibility of a skeleton-player enemy... Sure, if you want to try it out, go for it, i think that with a couple of addictions (like, i don't know, a tentacle spawning from the skull?) it could even work.

@CWolfRu: unfortunatly i can't put them in as key markers, since heretic uses two different sprites to form the key marker: the static statue and the colored part... But probably they could be really usefull to Cire for Zauberer, otherwise i will start some sort of attic.

EDIT: couple of corrections.

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Regarding levels, have you considered checking idgames archives for heretic maps released under the disclosure "Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse. Permissions have been obtained from original
authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file."?

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I can't speak for Springy, but i sure didn't. I will check out e1m5 from Hymn as jute suggested a long time ago and probably get a look on idgames to get a feel on what is going on there... Additionally i have two maps slowly cooking, i can't say what the estimated time of accomplishment is, but they will be eventually released for sure.

As a further side note, or i don't understand how the google wayback machine works (is a strong possibility) or it does not have a backup of the old site, this mean we need a new list of missing\completed resources and a new roadmap if nobody can remember the old one. I'll see what i can do in the next few days.

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Yes, it is! Thank you very much, i will incomporate those into the main page soon(tm).

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Cacowad said:

I will check out e1m5 from Hymn as jute suggested a long time ago and probably get a look on idgames to get a feel on what is going on there...


I will look there also, two eyes are better than one.

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@Cacowad @CWolfRu I'll have to check out the statues, but I'm sure they'd come in handy for Zauberer, if it's okay if I use them?

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Cire said:

@Cacowad @CWolfRu I'll have to check out the statues, but I'm sure they'd come in handy for Zauberer, if it's okay if I use them?

You are free to do whatever you want. =)

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If you google

site:https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/ "Authors MAY use this level as a base to build additional levels."

you get something like 95 results. There are a lot of DM maps, and some 0 star rated levels, but maybe something useful for the project can be found.

But, other than "Authors MAY etc..." do we need some other permission for using the level(s) in Blasphemer?

EDIT:

if you google

site:https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/ "You MAY distribute this file, provided you include this text file, with no modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file intact. I have received permission from the original authors of any modified or included content in this file to allow further distribution." AND "Authors may use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse. Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file.

You still got 53 results.

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Why not make some levels from scratch? Add value to this project. Or are the resources incomplete, thus making the motivation to make maps low?

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Well, I did a map for Blasphemer but creating it without all resources (sprites) was quite a pain. Especially testing. It is hard to fight against placeholders!

Now it seems more sprites are completed, this is good news.

The idea of using a stock of already existing maps is to have a playable environment where to show textures, sprites and so on, in order to encourage people to map for it.

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IMO it would be worth adding all the permissible maps in the idgames archives that are functional/can be completed, if only to serve as placeholders. Once more enemy sprites are complete I suspect people will be more willing to create new maps for the project.

I suppose if a person wanted to map for Blasphemer now, the best way might be to create a WAD of Blasphemer's textures and use it as a resource while mapping for Heretic. That way you won't be fighting placeholder monsters when you test your map.

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@Angry Saint: Right, i completely forgot about that, may i add it on the wiki's page?
also sorry for being quiet those last days, i had some serious issues at home... i need some time to search trought all of those, thank you for your time, if you find some noteworty ones feel free to link them here.

@printz: on top of what Angry Saint and jute already said i would add just one thing: there aren't a lot of prolific heretic mappers around here; and even if there were we have the same problem freedoom have, exept we are resource incomplete.
All of this just to say that we could borrow some maps (maybe with some adjustments if necessary) until we have our own set of maps. i have also completed two maps (even if i still have to adjust some light levels in one of them), have one coming soon(tm) and one frozen until further notice.

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Cacowad said:

@Angry Saint: Right, i completely forgot about that, may i add it on the wiki's page?


Yes, but first please check that textures resources are updated, as I used an old Blasphemer version to create it.

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All right, cleaned up the textures pack and added a floating floor10 cleanup by bloax as floor 31.

The wiki has been updated with the new texture pack and a page linking to the old versions of the IWAD.

Additionally, as i am writing this i found a couple of textures buried in the hellspawn forum that could be usefull, will make an update when i'm done, until then please wait to download the texture pack, thank you.

Edit: all the new textures have been added to the texture pack, but NOT in the iwad, they will be added in the next update.

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I have to confess I still have problems in finding all the files.

Which is the correct link?

On the first post I see links to GitHub and Google Projects, both with files uploaded 4/5 years ago.

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The first post should be modified in order to show only this link, IMO.

EDIT:

I did a short survey of the "free" maps available on idarchives. Here following the most interesting ones which I propose to be considered for Blasphemer:

BREEZE, BRAVADO & a revised 1.2 vs. of BRAVE
Author: Brad Kiefer
Levels: 3
Quality: medium
ToDo: details, gameplay
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use this level as a base to build additional levels.
You MAY distribute this WAD, provided you include this file, with
no modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic
format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file
intact. If you DO distribute this PWAD on a CD-ROM and charge money for
it, then fine -- but let me know that you did it.

Khazad-dum for Heretic
Author: Philippe lesire
Levels: 1
Quality: high
ToDo: change textures
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use this level as a base to build additional levels.
You may do whatever you want with this file.

The sewers
Author: Steve Parker
Levels: 1
Quality: medium
ToDo: details, gameplay
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use this level as a base to build additional
levels, but at least give me credit.
You MAY distribute this WAD, provided you include this file, with
no modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic
format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file
intact.

Lucifer's Spell
Author: Paul Corfiatis
Levels: 1
Quality: high
ToDo: nothing
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or
reuse. Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of
their resources modified or included in this file.
You MAY distribute this file, provided you include this text file, with no
modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic format (BBS,
Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file intact. I have
received permission from the original authors of any modified or included
content in this file to allow further distribution.

Torture
Author: Chris Lutz
Quality: high
ToDo: nothing
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use this level as a base to build additional
levels; just give me credit. Don't blame me if something
goes wrong, though.
You MAY distribute this WAD, provided you include this file, with
no modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic
format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file
intact.

Town of Aquafort
Author: SFoZ911
Quality: high
ToDo: nothing
* Copyright / Permissions *
Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or
reuse. Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of
their resources modified or included in this file.
You MAY distribute this file, provided you include this text file, with no
modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic format (BBS,
Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file intact. I have
received permission from the original authors of any modified or included
content in this file to allow further distribution.

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Alright, i've dowloaded the files you have pointed to me, and i'm seeing some familiar names among them, i'll update the post as i progress through them:

Note: i'm playing in hmp becouse i'm lazy.

HYMN e1m5: i remember it, a lot of ammo and artifacts has to go. The architecture is simple but to the point, i will need to test it in heretic+ to see if some of the exterior need to be changed toh.

EDIT1: regarding:

Angry Saint said:

But, other than "Authors MAY etc..." do we need some other permission for using the level(s) in Blasphemer?

I think that including the .txt for every included level should suffice the request for credit, at least until until we got something to replace them.

EDIT2: Torture by Chris Lutz: the crossbow is missing and it have a lot of inescapable pits, also the secrets are not flagged as they should be. Overall is a really solid level even without the crossbow (even if currently 100% kills can't be obtained without heavy infighting), with a ligth modification will do wonders.

EDIT3: Khazad-dum by Philippe lesire: this is a weird one, i just wandered around and stumbled upon the exit by chance... it is very atmospheric and not combat focused at all. I'll give it another try later.

EDIT4: Sewers by Steve Parker: this is barely a level. I found two paths that leads to two different exits with no interconnectivity, one is just a long tunnel followed by stairs worth of mock 2, the other was just unremarkable. I don't think we can add this without some serious work on it, and even if someone wanted to do so he'll be probably better off starting anew imho. (p.s just noticed that it is marked as a '86 file, wtf?) Apparently i played an omonimous level, i'll mend my error.

EDIT5: Town of Aquafort by SFoZ911: Oh yes, that's the good stuff. I really like this map and it always leave me wanting more from the guy (yes, i played it several times now, hey do you hear me SFoZ911? get back to it! ;D). Tomorrow i'll play it with Blasphemer to see how the conversion hold up.

EDIT6: Lucifer's Spell by Paul Corfiatis: good level, i really liked the starting gauntlet skirmishes and until the blue key it was pretty good and good paced, then it got suddently empty... I got so much stuff for the last sections and so little resistance that i was a little disappointed. I actually expected a more serious ambush after the yellow key and some form of resistance leading to the green key, not a golem for room! all stuff that can be easily "fixed" without distrupting the map itself fortunately.

EDIT7: BREEZE, BRAVADO & a revised 1.2 vs. of BRAVE by Brad Kiefer: I don't mind those, breeze and bravado are mostly fine, just need a couple of QOL bugfix, brave is another beast, it could be shrunk down in some places and rearranged to be functionally the same. The progression sometimes is a little obscure, especially in brave, where you have to backtrack almost to the beginning just to find that a dead end you found there was actually the ending portal, just after having to solve the most obscure switch sequence i have seen in a long time in the maulotaurs area.

Pros: decent exploratory maps that rewards you a lot (probably too much at some times) for taking your time to properly bump every wall you find.
Most of the time the secret areas was properly hinted and it was fun to seach for them, a good placement of monsters surging from walk-over-triggered secrets helped a lot in this regard.
Most of the time combat wasn't too bad.

Cons: activables pillars were almost never properly identified, leading to a lot of confusion and running around in circles trying to find a switch that didn't existed.
Repetable switches used for one time only actions were very abundant, and with them the awkward feeling of "now, what that did?" that permeated some sections and most of Brave. Also Brave, that map is the oldest of the three and it show it all.

Welp, now the second revision start. Also since SFoZ911 is still active on the forums i'd like to ask permission from him before including his map, if you know if someone of authors listed is still hanging around here please let me know.

EDIT8: Sewers by Steve Parker, take two: Decent level, gameplay flow well, very generous on ammo and artifact abundance on both hmp and uv, maybe the phoenix rod was an overkill on an already fat inventory. There are a lot of misaligned textures, after the second run they became really apparent and need to be fixed before the level is included.

Also i didn't realized that the powered up wand obliterate liches, that's fun.

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Horray! One map done, one still to go: here you go, The evil ruin (v2), made by frankesteining several maps Samian posted a while ago and adding my personal touch to it. The originals were made by an early version of ObHack and then touched up by Samian himself.

Screenshots (click to enlarge):


UV is challeging, hmp is a watered down uv and easy mode have more ammo\health and a couple of adjustments to make it, well, easier. Please give it a try and let me know if something is wrong, as usual i'll not include it in the build until all the quirks are ironed out.

P.s: also i'm quite tempted to try and post it into wads&mods to win someone on the Blasphemere texture pack, wich is really good imo.

P.P.s: i'll be idling at #balsphemer for a while, if someone may need something.

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