Blasphemer discussion

[AntonR]

6 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

 

Sounds that are handmade and not based on another can be added more easily. I assumed all your sounds were under a non-bsd license, so could only replace placeholders. 

all mine are hand made insofar as they are mostly my own recordings or a combination of that and public domain materials, and never anything raw, always with very significant edits (not sure how "transformative" works in licensing terms, but it means something lol) public domain materials have no restrictions whatsoever, and are free to relicense as any BSD license, which I do with all my work I contribute to this project, which means all my work is BSD 3 Clause because it is the license of this project.

[GeorgePieVG]

1 hour ago, AntonR said:

all mine are hand made insofar as they are mostly my own recordings or a combination of that and public domain materials, and never anything raw, always with very significant edits (not sure how "transformative" works in licensing terms, but it means something lol) public domain materials have no restrictions whatsoever, and are free to relicense as any BSD license, which I do with all my work I contribute to this project, which means all my work is BSD 3 Clause because it is the license of this project.

You also had edited versions of the original sounds from Blasphemer. I especially like the new sounds for harpies and plaguewielder from this archive.

[MrFlibble]

8 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

here was always a few public domain sounds in blasphemer so I wasnt worried about license much, but it seems there is a recent rush to fill in many resources with public domain stuff. 

I'm not sure what your stance is on public domain assets. Suppose someone takes a public domain/CC0 (or any other CC that is not NC, for that matter) sound effect and either uses it directly or as a base to replace a sound that is not exactly suitable, but was made specifically for the project, will you consider this some kind of an undesirable contribution? I mean, not everyone is able to record good quality sounds on their own (for example, one will probably need a good mic for that).

 

For example, some of the current (not @AntonR's) monster sounds seem to be very similar to one another, being more or less generic moans and growls, which is in a rather stark contrast with Heretic where each monster has a distinguishable idle sound that allows players to easily determine which monsters they are facing, even when those are not in sight. I would argue that any replacements that make the sounds more different (but still fitting the monsters' visual design) should be welcome, regardless of whether they were created from scratch or derived from existing sources with suitable licenses.

 

It's cool that there are contributors who have the skill, equipment and ability to produce completely new sound effects from scratch, but I'm finding it a bit of a very strict demand to require unique sound effects produced for the project, especially considering that Doom, Heretic and many other games of the era took most of their sound effects from commercial stock sound packs.

9 hours ago, GeorgePieVG said:

There is one important issue though, vanilla Heretic had the music in MUS format, not MID. Chocolate Heretic will probably play MID files, but I'm not sure about the original DOS executable. So we'll have to convert it first.

IIRC, native support for MIDI music was added to the DMX sound system at some point, but I'm not sure if this applies to Heretic. It's no problem either way, because there's a MIDI to MUS converter available (created by id, AFAIK), which works well in DOSBox:

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/utils/sound_edit/midi2mus

[Craneo]

the gargoyle death sound goofy af and the wizard sight sound sounds like a creaky door being opened

any change is good at this point, as long as it's license compatible

[AntonR]

1 hour ago, GeorgePieVG said:

You also had edited versions of the original sounds from Blasphemer. I especially like the new sounds for harpies and plaguewielder from this archive.

Cheers!
I think all of those are also in this zip archive along with more and newer ones

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2817458

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

10 hours ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Chocolate Heretic will probably play MID files, but I'm not sure about the original DOS executable. So we'll have to convert it first.

Been there, tried that: the original Heretic EXEs (nor Hexen's) definitely will not accept MIDI files, only MUS.  I forget offhand if the game outright crashes (I think it does) or if there's just no music but either way it doesn't work.

 

I think some of the confusion stems from it working in the latest Doom / Doom 2 EXEs but those have a later version of DMX in them, Heretic / Hexen were forked off of one of the early versions of Doom and retain several oddities that were patched out of later Doom versions (like the line of sight bug or the "barrel suicide" one).

 

Edit: Speaking of the line of sight bug, if you're trying to make sure everything works properly even in the DOS EXE, make sure all of the maps have proper REJECT lumps in them, too (not missing or just full of NULL value).  Some editors build them by default and some don't, and I'm pretty sure Eureka (which probably sees a larger than average use in a project like this) is in the "don't" category.  Monsters have a tendency to "see" the player through walls and wake up too early without one.

[Catoptromancy]

Blasphemer is a community project, it is less about license and more about having community made from scratch resources. Freedoom eventually got all the sounds, it just takes time.

 

 

 

[Catoptromancy]

 

18 hours ago, ax34 said:

I think this midi will be suitable for Blasphemer/Zauberer.

Author: me (ax34)

License: CC-BY (or CC0 if CC-BY if not free enough for Blasphemer)

cemetery-looped.zip

 

If you made it yourself and directly submitting to blasphemer, can just use blasphemer's license. Can relicense it elsewhere also. The best part of original resources is that creator can change license however they want. 

[ax34]

4 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

 

 

If you made it yourself and directly submitting to blasphemer, can just use blasphemer's license. Can relicense it elsewhere also. The best part of original resources is that creator can change license however they want. 

Yes, it's completely made by me, and you are free to relicense it for Blasphemer.

[AntonR]

7 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

Blasphemer is a community project, it is less about license and more about having community made from scratch resources. Freedoom eventually got all the sounds, it just takes time.

 

 

 

That's good to know, on that topic I can assure you none of my sounds can be found anywhere else on the internet or otherwise.
I never just take a sound and put it in, they are all very carefully designed specifically toward Blasphemer so they are project dedications.

[Catoptromancy]

Lots of dev stuff on discord with links to mostly current repo builds in the news channel. The Blasphemer discord is on the "Heretic and Hexen" server. 

 

Also from the contributing.md on the repo, gets to the details about license stuff:

Spoiler

# The Most Important Thing # This is an open content project, and as such, must adhere to strict licensing rules. Content that you submit must be compatible with the revised BSD license. DO NOT submit material from random websites; much "free" content on the web is still under copyright to someone and cannot be included. You may suggest material from [OpenGameArt](http://OpenGameArt.org) if it fits the criteria below. * Public Domain material is allowed, ONLY if it is unambiguously Public Domain. Beware of sites which claim their material is "public domain" while admitting that the sources are unknown: in all likelihood they are in fact copyrighted to someone and may NOT be used. * CC0 licensed material is allowed. * GPL material is NOT allowed. * CC-NC, CC-SA, and CC-ND material is NOT allowed. * CC-BY material is uncertain--we need more legal advice on this one, until then, we cannot accept it. * Other licenses should be assumed to be NOT allowed. * Be aware that the BSD license allows for modification and commercial use, however, the official Blasphemer releases are, and will remain, free of charge.

I think there is something gpl on repo, and I might need to remove a few more. 

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Catoptromancy/blasphemer/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

[Catoptromancy]

New Release! Lots of new sounds, projectile sprites, and other fixes. 

 

Download fork 005:

https://github.com/Catoptromancy/blasphemer/releases/tag/005

Download mirror:

https://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/blasphemer/builds/blasphemer-fork-005.zip

Changelog:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Catoptromancy/blasphemer/master/FORK_Changelog.md

Edited August 2 by Catoptromancy

[AntonR]

That is an excellent impdeath sound!

[MrFlibble]

I was not very happy with how the save slot and the menu sliders came out, and besides they were based on art with different licenses, so I completely remade them using native stuff from Blasphemer plus Freed∞m skull keys for the slider indicator: slider.zip

I suppose they're now much more fitting the general menu design of the game. The skulls on the sides come from a wall/door texture (WALL59).

 

@Catoptromancy, somehow I'm unable to download stuff from geocities.ws anymore. I would not be suggesting to push these intermittent releases to GitHub at this point, but any chance someone could re-upload the file to another file hosting.

[Catoptromancy]

Sliders added! Not sure where else to host, that site seems to work usually. Remember discord has downloads too. 

[MrFlibble]

I reworked the save/load slot a bit, I think this one is much better: fslot.zip

[AntonR]

the small black details belie the repetition a lot, but overall very nice. It communicates slot/storage better to have it inset

[MrFlibble]

3 hours ago, AntonR said:

the small black details belie the repetition a lot

I was lazy and just copied the pattern of the inventory slots. Maybe I should change those black pixels into some other colour to make them less conspicuous.

[MrFlibble]

I attempted to make the small font more readable, and cooked together the CREDIT pic with project info in the font: fonta.zip

Oh, and here's the save/load slot without the dark pixels: fslot2.zip

[GeorgePieVG]

3 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

I attempted to make the small font more readable, and cooked together the CREDIT pic with project info in the font: fonta.zip

Oh, and here's the save/load slot without the dark pixels: fslot2.zip

Nice font update, although it looks like you're playing an outdated release, the font has been changed to a different one

[Catoptromancy]

I have attachment space! Will upload releases as attachments, and delete oldest uploads first. 

blasphemer-fork-005.zip

[MrFlibble]

36 minutes ago, Catoptromancy said:

I have attachment space! Will upload releases as attachments, and delete oldest uploads first. 

Yay! Thanks a lot!

1 hour ago, GeorgePieVG said:

Nice font update, although it looks like you're playing an outdated release, the font has been changed to a different one

Well, that's the consequence of being unable to download the more recent builds. The new font is way more readable, although a bit of a pity it's not custom made for the project as it is clearly more Doom-like. I mean, I kind of "get" the idea of the original Blasphemer fonts' author, but the execution is not very polished, sadly.

On 7/29/2024 at 6:51 PM, Catoptromancy said:

Sliders added!

I've just fired up the current build and the sliders are not there, neither is the save/load slot graphic. The commits are all in the GitHub repo, but somehow not in the IWAD yet.

 

The title screen that I've provided is used as the CREDIT image, while the TITLE pic is the same as in the older builds, resulting in two different versions of the logo, one original and one corrected for 4:3 aspect ratio. Do you want me to provide the corrected logo without any background imagery? Here you go: title-centred.zip

The rotating menu skulls seem to be completely missing from both GitHub and the IWAD. I know these are not top priority, but just to be sure, are they rejected for not being original or just not added yet? Sorry for being confused.

[Catoptromancy]

Sliders and bars were added after release. The M_SKL graphics were under a license that could not be used. The Contributing.md file lists licenses, mainly only CC0 and obvious public domain is allowed. Should definitely focus on creating resources, not finding them on websites though. 

[MrFlibble]

18 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

The M_SKL graphics were under a license that could not be used.

Waitasec, the skull thingy was part of the Demon Eclipse art pack that @Amuscaria has donated to Freed∞m. The same one where the new skull sword comes from.

[Catoptromancy]

If its freedoom license, can readd it. Not sure why they got labelled that. 

[MrFlibble]

On 7/30/2024 at 11:52 PM, Catoptromancy said:

Should definitely focus on creating resources

I certainly did not intend the skulls from DE to be anything but placeholders -- but my logic is that having a visible placeholder is better than nothing at all, because how else people will know there's an asset they could improve upon, especially if someone is not familiar with Heretic in the first place?

 

I was thinking what could be used instead of the skulls, and a rotating red pentagram (like the nuke logo in Duke Nukem 3D menus) seems like a logical option. For another idea, @Craneo, I understand that you sculpted your gargoyle as a 3D model, perhaps you could make a full rotation of it for the main menu?

[SecularSteve]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:18 PM, MrFlibble said:

I really have no more say in this than anyone else. I just wanted to correct the aspect ratio of the logo on the title screen, and added a background from a skybox for the lack of any artistic skills. Would be nice to have some nice title screen art instead, so if you're willing to give it a try, please go ahead!

 

Never say I don't follow up.

 

Here's a v0.00001 very rough sketch I did using a Win95 palette for authenticity.

 

bonus points if you figured out who's likeness I used.

posting because I want to be assured if this idea's going anywhere, or if it's getting too silly

 

Edited August 1 by SecularSteve

[SecularSteve]

With the recent "GRID AND TEAR!" event over at SteamGridDB I keep mentioning, I think you'd all be interested to know my Blasphemer asset page request got approved not 5 minutes ago:

 

https://www.steamgriddb.com/game/5460280

[MrFlibble]

On 8/1/2024 at 10:46 AM, SecularSteve said:

 

Never say I don't follow up.

 

Here's a v0.00001 very rough sketch I did using a Win95 palette for authenticity.

 

bonus points if you figured out who's likeness I used.

posting because I want to be assured if this idea's going anywhere, or if it's getting too silly

 

Since no one else commented, here's my two cents.

 

Personally, I don't think it would be a good idea for the titlepic art to bear any significant similarity to the original Heretic box art/title screen. It is not to say that it should not show the protagonist in some kind of confrontation with the monsters, but it can be done in a number of ways.

 

For example, here's some art by @Fredrik (for Doom) that could handsomely work as title or intermission screen art in a game:

Also note that, unlike Corvus, the Blasphemer protagonist does not wear a cape. You can use the in-game sprite and portrait for reference.

[SecularSteve]

12 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

Since no one else commented, here's my two cents.

 

Personally, I don't think it would be a good idea for the titlepic art to bear any significant similarity to the original Heretic box art/title screen. It is not to say that it should not show the protagonist in some kind of confrontation with the monsters, but it can be done in a number of ways.

 

For example, here's some art by @Fredrik (for Doom) that could handsomely work as title or intermission screen art in a game:

Also note that, unlike Corvus, the Blasphemer protagonist does not wear a cape. You can use the in-game sprite and portrait for reference.

 

Thanks for the tips, and for the heads-up.

I think I'm more surprised that Blasphemer has no art yet. I mean, I'm probably looking in the wrong places, but I haven't come across so much as a sketch.