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Obsidian

The Reservoir - Holy carp, a Heretic map!

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And yes, I know Walter posted one as well. :P

Downloap.



I felt like doing something I haven't done in a while and I made a 24 hour map, but partway through I had the random idea of porting the map to Heretic instead of using Doom. The result? This is a single map for Heretic that I'm pretty sure fits into vanilla despite the fact that I wasn't trying to get vanilla compatibility: I seem to subconsciously lean towards vanilla somehow. It's on the E1M8 slot, so type in "engage18" to warp to it. Bear in mind that due to it's nature it isn't fully tested nor does it have difficulty settings, but I'll make sure to implement that stuff later. Have fun!

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I liked it, the compact layout and varied design were all nice, and while none of the close combat encounters were specially challenging, they weren't trivial or too much tedious either. All of this made up for Heretic's lack of fast-paced challenge, at least for me it worked - so good job, this was a pretty good simple Heretic map.

EDIT: Oh, there was a bug - I got stuck in the lift-activated Knight closet. I couldn't find my way further, so that I straferan there. :P Eventually found out that all I needed was to shoot the wall, but the lift has already closed behind me and I had to noclip out of there.

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Beat it on UV. The waterfall maze was a bit of a pain in a butt to beat thanks to the 128x128 visibility. I did like the corner traps in the lich fight though. Good architecture.

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The map won't even start in Vanilla Heretic due to the TEXTURE1 lump containing Doom's BLODGR1-4. What's with the key markers having small pillar mobjs on the same spots as them?

You can tell it was a Doom map converted to Heretic. Not helped by the fact that it is predominantly textured in a commonly used Doom texture pack.

I thought the number of Disciples released by the Yellow Key seemed a bit over the top. Also the waterfall maze wasn't great; remember that the vanilla games automap doesm't update as the player moves around with it open.

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Vermil said:

The map won't even start in Vanilla Heretic due to the TEXTURE1 lump containing Doom's BLODGR1-4.


Crap, I thought I deleted that. For some reason none of the animated textures get removed when you use the Maintenance option in SLADE3, which is slightly annoying.

What's with the key markers having small pillar mobjs on the same spots as them?


It's something you see in Heretic with I think almost every single key marker. Never mind, I'm a simpleton. I have no idea why Doom Builder doesn't include the statue in the marker.

You can tell it was a Doom map converted to Heretic. Not helped by the fact that it is predominantly textured in a commonly used Doom texture pack.


You're, uhh, about half right: I converted it to Heretic partway through. I reckon the Gothic textures fit though. :)

I thought the number of Disciples released by the Yellow Key seemed a bit over the top. Also the waterfall maze wasn't great; remember that the vanilla games automap doesm't update as the player moves around with it open.


Yeah, I think you might be right on both counts. I'll cut the Disciples to 4 and increase visibility a tad.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. :)

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Updated map: removed junk textures, fixed key pedestals, reduced Acolytes and nixed all the vertical waterfalls in the maze.

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Just tried to play it using ZDoom. Crashed on load.

------------
Bad PNAMES and/or texture directory:

PNAMES has 111 entries, but
TRISTON2 wants to use entry 112.
------------


....

You know how SLADE loves to faff around TEXTURE patches at random?

Will fix. God dammit SLADE.

EDIT: That should do it. Updated.

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Obsidian said:

It's something you see in Heretic with I think almost every single key marker. Never mind, I'm a simpleton. I have no idea why Doom Builder doesn't include the statue in the marker.


Heretic's key marker statues are two separate mobjs. The statue spawns the coloured orb at map start. This is so that orb can be lit full bright without also having the statue be full bright.

In Doom Builder, the sprite displayed for the key markers is the coloured orb (because the statue would mean you couldn't tell which marker was which at a glance in 3d mode etc), but you are actually placing the statue.

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The original waterfall maze wasn't a bad idea at all, I liked it, it was certainly better and more unique thing to spice up Heretic's gameplay than any random maze or yet another corridor you could put in there.

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Aww, you removed the hanging banner that was covering the switch which opened the teleport to the secret Gauntlets. Not much of a secret now. Hmm, you removed all the banners. Wait, editor shows that all the banners were replaced with... walls? What? HYPO_D01 texture is now pointing to WALL04 patch, but it's invisible in the map. HYPO_D01 isn't in the patch list. Man, Slade really does fuck things up, doesn't it?

I like the changes to the waterfall maze. It's still maze-y, but not as disorienting.

In the outdoor area, it's almost impossible for the Clinks to come up the stairs because of their triangular shape and the Clinks random movement. Eventually one did, but they'd normally be dead long before that.

Tried to SR into the Knight closet for 10 minutes. Couldn't do it. The force is not strong with this one.

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Obsidian said:

Crap, I thought I deleted that. For some reason none of the animated textures get removed when you use the Maintenance option in SLADE3, which is slightly annoying.

Yeah that's a safety feature. There's a hardcoded list of switches and animated textures and flats that are spared from removal to avoid cleaning them. It's kind of "good enough for now" code.

Obsidian said:

....

You know how SLADE loves to faff around TEXTURE patches at random?

No I don't.

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The newest version still crashes Zandronum, and I was still able to get stuck in the Knight closet (as I reported earlier).

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Also just noticed that the flickering candles textures, WLLLVFLx aren't in the niches in the starting room anymore. It looks like a lot of textures were added twice.


Fixed that: I redid the TEXTURE1 lump and forgot to resize the lavafall texture. Also I know why Zand crashed, but I'm not sure what to do about it: it appears to get hung up on the Iron Lich special parameter in the MAPINFO and there just isn't enough examples for me to adequately fix it. Can someone give me a hand with that?

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First, this map is not a bad map by any regards. It does however contain 2 peeves of mine and 1 minor nuisance.

+First, I no longer like puzzles that require the player to go through walls to solve them such as your water walls. This is fine for secrets though.

+Second, I also avoid using water or lava or any such texture on the ceiling, unless it is well designed to be that way.

+The gothic textures combined with the cartoony nature of heretic makes my head hurt a little bit.

Other than the bad things I liked the location of the switch that leads you to the secret area. I thought that was a good Idea. I hope to see more heretic maps from you soon.

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