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rabidrage

No love for WolfensteinSS?

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I've noticed that most people avoid using the Wolfenstein SS enemy, or just plain don't think to use them. Sure, I know they don't fit the theme of the other enemies very well and they're not "real" Doom II monsters in the sense that they're only in the secret levels. Plus their sprites aren't really on par with the Doom sprites. But hey, I'm sure there are excellent mods that update them and make them a little bit different, right?

I think they're great for tweaking the balance in a map. When you want someone tougher than a Former Human but you're tired of Sergeants or don't want the player to get a shotgun just yet, you can put in the SS guys! They're basically a lite version of the Chaingunner.

Thoughts?

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If you give them more Doom-fitting sprites to make them look like a zombie trooper or whatever, then they're fine behavior-wise. They just look stupidly out of place as they are.

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The "rapid-fire troopers" found in a few ZDoom mods (notably KDiZD) are basically the Wolf guys with a Doom zombie skin.

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I agree with ETTiNGRiNDER.

Rylayeh.wad did a rather good job replacing SS's sprites and sounds with zombie's. Though they still lacked rotations. That's another problem of SS guys, only 1 front sprite for attack. (Although someone on the ZDoom forums already made a fixed version of SS sprites with attack rotations.)

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rabidrage said:

Sure, I know they don't fit the theme of the other enemies very well and they're not "real" Doom II monsters in the sense that they're only in the secret levels. Plus their sprites aren't really on par with the Doom sprites.


I think these are basically the reasons that they never get used. I guess people don't take their maps (or other people's maps) as seriously when they include small bright-blue Nazis shouting "Schutzstaffel" and "mein Leben" in among the relatively more frightening and, dare I say realistic, demons and zombies that Doom uses. It's also a little clumsy that they only have firing animations in one direction, which is confusing when they're stuck in infights.

It's a rare day that you see a non-joke map use the SS men, I guess because people like their maps to be srs bsns or else know that there will be people that will give knee-jerk low ratings for attempting to work them in. I recall good ol' Phobos used them, albeit sparingly. (EDIT: Plutonia 2 also used Commander Keens, which are easily much more out of place in any Doom map. And Plutonia 2 was awesome.) I've never actually used them in any of mine, probably for the same reasons other people don't.

They do have a nice potential behavior for use as a normal enemy, in basically the situations you said. As it is their most popular use seems to be as a farm for DEHACKED frames.

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ETTiNGRiNDER said:

If you give them more Doom-fitting sprites to make them look like a zombie trooper or whatever, then they're fine behavior-wise. They just look stupidly out of place as they are.


Somebody did that. I remember a mapset where someone re-skinned the SS guys in a Doom style and used them throughout the set. I remember really liking it. I usually rip and save interesting sprites/textures/flats in separate Doom folders. For some reason I didn't save these.

Oh well, it wouldn't be difficult to go to Realm667.com, grab an appropriate-looking monster and re-name the sprites to replace the SS ones, ignoring all the DECORATE stuff. Or using that too if you want.

The "Former Ranger" seems to fit nicely.

http://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/beastiary-mainmenu-136-69621/doom-style-mainmenu-105-73113?start=60#preview-7

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My MAP31 from TPBM uses Wolf SS in an entire Wolfenstein styled area, they are kind of a hassle to place in that area because they are so small compared to it but I found a way to make it work.

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Replacing their sprites is lame. The whole point of putting Wolfenstein enemies in your maps IS to be weird\funny\controversial. If you're using SS guys without actually using them, there's nothing cool about it.

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Memfis said:

Replacing their sprites is lame. The whole point of putting Wolfenstein enemies in your maps IS to be weird\funny\controversial. If you're using SS guys without actually using them, there's nothing cool about it.

Is this an attempt to apply MATH LOGIC?

Spoiler

I don't know, your argument just seems strange to me, like the math logic discussed in your recent thread.

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ETTiNGRiNDER said:

If you give them more Doom-fitting sprites to make them look like a zombie trooper or whatever, then they're fine behavior-wise.

Yarp. I think I did that with one of my mods. NJZDoom2001 maybe.

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A lot of interesting thoughts here. So far I've been content to use 3d model versions of them with the same sounds and everything. Yeah, they seem a bit out of place, but I could always just say they're zombie nazis, right? They've just been in Hell 70 or so years.

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Personally I don't see any viable use for another hitscan enemy. If there are situations where you need a hitscan monster, I think the Zombieman, shotgun guy, and chaingunner best represent the three extremes (easy medium hard.)

SS Nazis have an HP Value that's annoying to me. They don't go down very easily with a pistol, they're weak enough not take all pellets of a shotgun shot, but no enough to kill two in one blast.

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I just like variety. Like I said, too--if you don't want the player to get a shotgun or chaingun just yet--there you go. Though I've definitely seen enough WADs with Sergeants and Chaingunners who are behind bars or on higher floors where you can't get their guns. But who wants to do that all the time?

And I know, I know...that's what Imps are for. Imps get boring.

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I used them in one of my maps in a little secret. In a base level there was like a war room sort of thing, where top ranking military men go or something. And behind one of the walls I made a little Nazi room, pointing a sign not only to Wolfenstein but suggesting there's a Nazi in the ranks, mad with power kind of thing.

It does seem a bit lame that they don't have all rotations available though.

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They would be fine for wolfenstein themed map but not much more to be honest. And yeah it does look a bit silly seeing a semi-cartoony human character (albiet actually alive as opposed to undead) trying to kill you while in a group of far more intimidating, more realistic looking demons.

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