SR60 - Speedrunning WAD (in progress)

[Kpa6]

The WAD is about speedrunning. Try to reach the exit as quickly as possible.

The WAD is in progress, current state: 3 maps ready.

Download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n830ptokuzxnh1e/SR60.zip?dl=0

Here are some things I would appreciate help with:

Graphic design (textures etc.) - if you want to make the maps look better, go for it!
Glides - there are some 32 unit gaps on levels, if you did a glide on one of them, please tell me. I'm assuming that glides are always possible for 32 unit gaps, but I want to make sure.
List of speedrunning tricks: I know of http://www.doom2.net/compet-n/index.cgi?action=nostalg page, but it doesn't seem to be complete.

Screenshots:




Any opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc., both on technical and gameplay sides, are very welcome. Enjoy!

[Andrea Rovenski]

As a speed runner, I found this tedious and boring. Also, inescapable pits all over are pretty dumb. I like the idea I suppose, but I don't think this execution is too great. Also, if you're taking maps or something I could make something interesting.

[Doomkid]

These almost feel like 'training ground' maps, or perhaps just 1994 maps. I do like the concept of speedrun maps where players can race eachother via .LMP files, but that doesn't mean the maps need to be boring - You need to add some details here and there to keep the player engaged.

[Kpa6]

Too boring, got it:) Will try to throw more details in next maps. The problem with pits exists, but I don't see a simple way to solve it - for the pits that you're supposed to SR over I can't put the teleport, because then you'll teleport if you try to run over it (like for the pits on the first map). And if I put teleports only where I can, it will also be stupid that some pits have TPs, and some don't.
Cyber, if you want to edit these maps or want to add yours to the WAD, by all means, do it:) Just keep in mind that it should be more skill-based than luck-based. I want a higher-skilled runner to show consistently better results on these maps than a lower-skilled one. For example, there shouldn't be a situation when a weaker runner gets a better time because he killed 2 pinkies with 4 shotgun shots. As long as the criterion is met, creative ideas are highly welcome.

I was getting basic concepts from Defrag, and I expect this WAD to be somewhat similar - obviously with Doom gameplay and with Doom style, but with the same idea around finding a perfect route and executing it nearly perfectly. Also, of course, filled with tricks - glides, archvile jumps, death exit, etc. As long as design doesn't interfere or distract the player from gameplay, I want it to be as entertaining as possible.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Edited MAP01 with my idea on how to fix pit issues.
http://puu.sh/d3rWz/3a5eaf4cc9.wad

[GrumpyCat]

Hi!
Very cool idea!
There is very annoying problem with teleporters - too easy to skip.
Imho it's bad when uncontrollable random factor can ruin high % of attempts.
Thanks!

[Kpa6]

Changed it a little bit. Moved down the sector where the player gets teleported, so that it doesn't feel like your head is touching the ceiling, and changed GATE4 to GATE3, as it matches the color of the lava. Download link is the same.

[Kpa6]

GrumpyCat said:

Hi!
Very cool idea!
There is very annoying problem with teleporters - too easy to skip.
Imho it's bad when uncontrollable random factor can ruin high % of attempts.
Thanks!

Hi:) You mean entering the teleport, but not actually being teleported? Yeah, it can be a problem:( At least original Doom has the same issue, I'm not sure what to do about it. I guess it's possible to remove teleporters and just have a continuous map. But I like teleporters:( Also they make it easier to measure performance on a particular segment. If you move from one room to another, you keep your angle, movement, speed, etc. When you teleport, you are spawned at a fixed angle with no speed. I'm not sure, there are plenty of maps in original Doom with many teleporters... I'll try to decrease their number:) I'll only use it if it means some radical change, like change from straferun section to glide section, or something like this.

[4shockblast]

I had a similar idea awhile ago to make a trick/puzzle-based obstacle course with speedrunning in mind, I'm still interested in making something like that as well. I agree with the others that this wasn't a very good execution of the idea; it's too boring and simple, and it's mostly just made up of strafejumps as well, so it's not very interesting.

Regarding teleport linedef skips, the best way to make them harder to skip is making them diagonal. Also, linedefs east and north are much harder to skip than south and west (east and north linedefs usually can't be skipped normally without a rocket boost/thing boost/wallrun).

[40oz]

I too contemplated making a wad with a similar ideology. I was poised to believe that it would potentially be one of the most timeless maps ever made. I pitched this idea once before, but what I learned from most runners is that designing a map for the purpose of speedrunning is a lot like writing for the purpose of speed reading. Speedrunners will take the time to obsessively play and replay the same map if they are having fun doing it. So if you design a map exclusively around utilizing the tricks they know, that can be fun, but not as much fun as the core gameplay itself. Much like a longer book doesn't necessitate a fun read, even for speed readers.

I'd argue that a map that does strategically allow for speedrunning trick obstacles to greatly benefit the runners time is one of the elements of what an idealized "greatest map of all time" would have. It requires an extensive knowledge of the Doom engine and of Doom's documented bugs, and how/why those bugs can work in a player's favor. It may also require you to be an extraordinary player, to test if these tricks work, and that you understand the editor enough to design a map that employs these bugs efficiently, so that they work as intended, and are a challenge for the player to attempt to use, and most importantly, the message that it is an intended challenge for the player is effectively communicated.

There are other elements as well but this is one I'm still interested in.

[4shockblast]

I think a wad made for speedrunning could work if the tricks are sufficiently varied and clever. Often, mapsets with intended tricks just have a random glide, strafejump, or death slide somewhere that was obviously left in just for a trick and sometimes doesn't even make sense in context of the map. I think a good way of varying up tricks for an obstacle course type mapset is creating trick combinations and adding different paths through a level (some paths that may utilize tricks that are only realistically possible to achieve in TAS, for instance) and varying the gameplay up with trick puzzles. In my opinion, the idea has a lot of potential if executed correctly.

[GrumpyCat]

I have similar plans for exploration/puzzle/monsters_exploitation megawad.
Even have ~10 maps on paper =)
With bizarre feel like Epic2 Map14.
Some maps are very speed-unfriendly though.
Some with tricks I've never seen.
But still have no free time and skill for it.