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Doominator2

Cleveland Police kills 12 year old boy after

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Now this is very interesting, a boy who was told to put his hands up reached for his holster and the cops shot him twice killing him latter on. The some what strange part is that the cop instantly fired when the boy reached for his holster, however why would a cop think that a 12 year old would be wielding a real gun, and if he really did have a gun with him why would he wait for the cops to show up to shoot them? Link

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Here's a local article on the shooting.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_fatal.html#incart_big-photo

It's been in the local news (I'm in a suburb of Cleveland), but I admittedly only heard about it in passing. The first link posted and my own link are pretty close to what I've also heard about it. It's a sad situation for everybody all around.

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Trying out for Secret Service. They're trained to shoot first and not yell freeze. Maybe that's changed in recent years since anyone can walk in the White House without ending up dead.

As for the real reason. I can't put myself in that situation. I'm sure its very different in the real situation and hindsight is always 20/20.

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Doominator2 said:

Now this is very interesting, a boy who was told to put his hands up reached for his holster and the cops shot him twice killing him latter on. The some what strange part is that the cop instantly fired when the boy reached for his holster, however why would a cop think that a 12 year old would be wielding a real gun, and if he really did have a gun with him why would he wait for the cops to show up to shoot them? Link


The better question is: Why did his parents allow him to run around realistic looking airsoft gun without the orange safety tip in the first place? He is clearly to young and irresponsible to have an airsoft gun if he thinks it's ok to point it at people, especially a cop with his weapon drawn.

Don't get me wrong the fact that he was killed is sad. But, the whole situation screams irresponsible parenting and it's about time people here in the US start blaming parents for there irresponsible and bad behaved children.

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I don't get the article saying sixth graders would have I hard time understanding death's permanence. At that age I knew 100% for a fact that people could and eventually will die, and that meant myself as well. Then again, seeing as he pulled out any sort of object around a policeman (let alone a fake gun), maybe he's either not too bright, or very sheltered.

But onto the topic at hand, it's a fucking travesty shit like this happens again and again, with the cops involved getting off scott-free. Usually with the reasoning being: "well, what if it was X thing happening?", which is pretty bonkers to me.

Imagine if some guy shot another man going down the street, and went on to say: "Well, what if he was a bad dude up to no good?"

Kind of an oversimplification in many ways, but the hell if I was any good at explaining things.

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Satyr000 said:

The better question is: Why did his parents allow him to run around realistic looking airsoft gun without the orange safety tip in the first place? He is clearly to young and irresponsible to have an airsoft gun if he thinks it's ok to point it at people, especially a cop with his weapon drawn.

Don't get me wrong the fact that he was killed is sad. But, the whole situation screams irresponsible parenting and it's about time people here in the US start blaming parents for there irresponsible and bad behaved children.

Or perhaps he told his parents he was going to go see a friend or something of that nature? I honestly doubt he went to his parents and said "Hey mom, I'm gonna go and run around with my bb gun and point it at people".

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Jaxxoon R said:

I don't get the article saying sixth graders would have I hard time understanding death's permanence. At that age I knew 100% for a fact that people could and eventually will die, and that meant myself as well. Then again, seeing as he pulled out any sort of object around a policeman (let alone a fake gun), maybe he's either not too bright, or very sheltered.

To be fair, there was a lot about death I didn't understand in 6th grade. I logically got the permanence of death, but it never seemed like it was something that could happen to me - at that age I had some subconscious belief that somehow I would be exempt from that. Moreover, I didn't understand police in 6th grade, and I probably would've been shot as well in that situation. I mean especially when you've seen a lot of movies - the good guys never just shoot without trying to figure out the situation, so it wouldn't occur to me to just shut up and put my hands in the air. I'd be thinking, "Oh I'll just walk over to him and explain this is a bb gun, and then he'll understand." You know, the idea that the cops would just shoot simply because you didn't immediately do what they told you to wouldn't have crossed my mind - I'd be thinking, "Okay, as long as I don't point the gun at him, I'll be okay." Granted, I'd never had any run-ins with the cops at age 12, but no one ever said, "Cops won't listen, just do what you're told," so at that age I assumed cops were just like anyone else, that all you have to do is tell them what's going on and they'll stop bothering you.

I dunno, maybe that made me a really dumb kid, but that's where I was at that age, having never dealt with cops, only angry teachers and parents.

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Satyr000 said:

The better question is: Why did his parents allow him to run around realistic looking airsoft gun without the orange safety tip in the first place?

Kids hide shit from their parents all the time. It's likely that his parents didn't even know he had it, and it could have belonged to one of his friends. It's even possible that he found it somewhere. Don't assume.

I don't disagree that many parents are less than responsible with their children, but we simply don't know enough to come to any conclusions about this particular situation.

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Doominator2 said:

Or perhaps he told his parents he was going to go see a friend or something of that nature? I honestly doubt he went to his parents and said "Hey mom, I'm gonna go and run around with my bb gun and point it at people".


Again, he shouldn't have been allowed to have a realistic looking airsoft gun without the orange tip in the first place. He should have also been told never to run around pointing a toy gun at random people in the first place. My mother drilled that into my head and keep doing so when I got my first cheap neon colored squirt gun as a kid. I can also remember my brother getting his taken away and spanked because he didn't listen. It was also the only time he did.

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Satyr000 said:

Again, he shouldn't have been allowed to have a realistic looking airsoft gun without the orange tip in the first place. He should have also been told never to run around pointing a toy gun at random people in the first place. My mother drilled that into my head and keep doing so when I got my first cheap neon colored squirt gun as a kid. I can also remember my brother getting his taken away and spanked because he didn't listen. It was also the only time he did.

Again, you know nothing about this kid or his family, what the parents did or didn't allow, and what they did or didn't teach him. Stop assuming.

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While I'm in no way defending the cops, this whole "airsoft" thing has been completely retarded from its inception and has gotten quite a few people killed.

There are toy guns, and there are real guns. Having anything in between and making it look like the latter for no good reason is pure trouble. There should never be any ambiguity as to whether or not something that looks like a weapon is actually dangerous.

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Heh, my parents didn't even allow toy guns in my house - didn't stop me from going over to my friend's house, who had a ton of realistic-looking toy guns, none of which had the orange tips. I mean, we'd run around the neighborhood playing Doom Deathmatch (actually, this was pre-Doom, but the rules were basically the same). And of course I was never taught how to deal with toy guns around adults/cops/whatever because my parents didn't believe in toy guns and forbade me from playing with them, not counting on me playing with them at my friend's house behind their backs.

And I can't blame my parents or whatever, because Rule #1 was never play with toy guns in the first place, and so I was already ignoring what they told me in the first place. Not that I was a bad kid or anything, I just thought the fuss over toy guns was way overblown. And even if they had told me how to responsibly handle a toy gun, I probably would have ignored that advice, because again, from my perspective, they were freaking out over nothing, so why would I follow any safety advice? It never occurred to me as a kid that you might get shot by a cop thinking you had a real gun - any thoughts along those lines would've been, "I'm a friggin' kid, no way a cop's gonna see a kid and think he has a weapon."

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The funny thing is, the 911 call said it was a toy gun, but that information either wasn't told to the cops, or they didn't give a shit. Shooting a 12-yr old is pretty hard either way, but still.

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American cops - the best solution to African child soldiers? They're used for shock and hesitation to pull the trigger fast enough, but try that on these bad boys!

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Doominator2 said:

a boy who was told to put his hands up reached for his holster

USA.txt


Here's a parenting protip, folk: explain to your kids that policemen are not their playmates. If a cop tells you to hold your hands up, you don't reach for your airsoft gun and pretend to have an epic gunfight like in a movie.


This is especially true in the USA, where 1. everybody has guns, 2. little children routinely have real guns with which they play so that they can kill their sisters for real, 3. there's an ongoing paranoia about terrorists and school-shooters, 4. cops shoot first and ask questions later.

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Jaxxoon R said:

Imagine if some guy shot another man going down the street, and went on to say: "Well, what if he was a bad dude up to no good?"


That's like literally what happened to Trayvon Martin.

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Nomad said:

That's like literally what happened to Trayvon Martin.


He got shot because he was beating the piss out of Zimmerman.

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And Zimmerman got beat because he thought he was friggin' Wyatt Earp, there to bring this young hoodlum to justice. And I still say the beating was absolutely called for, because you never know when the maniac trying to detain you for no reason might be some sicko pervert looking to throw you in the trunk of his car.

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the_miano said:

He got shot because he was beating the piss out of Zimmerman.


The hell would you do if some dickhead were following you around acting like you're a criminal? Trayvon had as much right to protect himself as Zimmerman did.

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geekmarine said:

And Zimmerman got beat because he thought he was friggin' Wyatt Earp, there to bring this young hoodlum to justice. And I still say the beating was absolutely called for, because you never know when the maniac trying to detain you for no reason might be some sicko pervert looking to throw you in the trunk of his car.


I don't believe it was Zimmerman's place to "follow" Trayvon. If Zimmerman suspected that the kid was suspicious (for whatever fucking reason), he should have just called the police and have them take care of the situation. Trayvon could have then said to the police "I'm just heading home from the store, I live at <address>" and the cops would have gone about their business.

Though what Trayvon did was even more foolish which costed him his life. That beating was technically assault/battery/and attempted murder. It was no way in self defense no matter how view it. If I was in Trayvon's position, I would not have approached Zimmerman.

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Nomad said:

The hell would you do if some dickhead were following you around acting like you're a criminal? Trayvon had as much right to protect himself as Zimmerman did.


I would get the Hell out of there and call the police. That's what I would do. I would not approach somebody who was following me.

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the_miano said:

I don't believe it was Zimmerman's place to "follow" Trayvon. If Zimmerman suspected that the kid was suspicious (for whatever fucking reason), he should have just called the police and have them take care of the situation.


He did. And they told him to leave the kid the fuck alone. Zimmerman was a "neighborhood watch" leader who regularly pestered the cops about things like this.

You're right that Trayvon should have called the police as well; but let's be honest: a black kid calling the cops from the ghetto probably isn't going to get any kind of priority. MAYBE they having had already received Zimmerman's call they would have given it some credence, but hindsight is always 20/20.

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Little boy gets shot. Actually a kid, actually innocent, so no controversy.

Let's bring up Trayvon Martin! Because dead bodies don't matter unless we can have a polarized shitstorm out of it.

Stay classy, Internet.

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Hey, I was just providing an example of a hypothetical that someone brought up.

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Nomad said:

But let's be honest: a black kid calling the cops from the ghetto probably isn't going to get any kind of priority. MAYBE they having had already received Zimmerman's call they would have given it some credence, but hindsight is always 20/20.


Ok this just sounds ludicrous. The police will arrive on site to emergencies regardless if the caller was black or not. And I'm pretty sure he was not from the ghetto. I don't know where you are getting that from.

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MFG38 said:

The world just keeps becoming crazier by the day.

And quite possibly unsafe, due to the lack of responsability and to the laws which nobody cares.
Here in UE, nobody is allowed to use guns except the police or the army,
while in USA people can use guns, ironic isn't it?
But then again it's no suprise that it is a target of terrorists and muslims, because they stepped on the wrong soil.

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the_miano said:

Ok this just sounds ludicrous. The police will arrive on site to emergencies regardless if the caller was black or not.


You're far less cynical than I, I shall admit. I'm not saying you're wrong that he shouldn't have confronted Zimmerman and should have called the police. But I do not think he was necessarily in the wrong standing up for himself. We'll never know exactly what happened though, and as shitty as the outcome was the due process of law was done, so I guess there's not much that can be said anymore.

MFG38 said:

Well goddammit. The world just keeps becoming crazier by the day.


Despite my cynicism, and despite what the media would want you to believe, the we actually live in a pretty peaceful, relatively low crime period in time. There's always going to be a shitstorm about something because humans thrive on drama, but scaremongering aside the USA is, aside from a few pockets and depending on your own background, a pretty safe place to live.

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