Playable map with immotal monsters? [ghosts/AV bug]

[Katamori]

There's a bug in Vanilla Doom: if you kill monsters with crushers, and then you send an Arch-Vile near to their corpses, then the resurrected monsters are gonna be effectively immortal.

What do you think, is it possible to make an ACTUALLY playable map based on it?

[scifista42]

Yes, BTSX E2 MAP24 and also D2INO MAP31 take advantage of ghost monsters, and that's just 2 examples from recent notable wads.

[Katamori]

Even D2INO?? I completely missed that.

[Grazza]

Welcome to 1995.

Here is a list.

[Reisal]

Have a rocket launcher to deal with them, only splash damage harms ghosts. Not direct hits but from nearby walls/floors.

[Yuki Senmatsu]

I've seen it happen on Skulltag, but it was me who got the effect via the resurrect cheat.

[Grazza]

Glaice said:

only splash damage harms ghosts. Not direct hits but from nearby walls/floors.

Not true.

The problem is just that most attacks miss the ghost. If the height is just right, then they can connect, and do damage as normal. Ledmeister demonstrated this by killing a ghost pain elemental with the plasma gun.

a very narrow area at the base of a ghost's vertical axis can sometimes be affected by some of these attacks. For example, plasma bursts will pass through nearly all parts of a ghost Cacodemon, but may also occasionally impact a point near the base of its axis, causing damage.)

Demo

[Katamori]

Grazza said:

Welcome to 1995.

Here is a list.

Wow. I seriously thought that this idea makes the game too hard to leave the chance for mappers to use it effectively.

[40oz]

To my recollection, since plutonia map15: the twilight, I've never seen a map use infinitely resurrecting chaingun guys. There are ways to design that particular situation so that the archvile can be crushed, teleported out, or exposed by a door or lowered floor to cease the infinite respawning, and can be a pretty fun objective-based monster encounter. I guess that map left everyone with bad memories.

[scifista42]

40oz said:

To my recollection, since plutonia map15: the twilight, I've never seen a map use infinitely resurrecting chaingun guys.

Epic 2 MAP32 has some, also one of the Hellfire wads by Shadowman, I think.

[dew]

40oz said:

To my recollection, since plutonia map15: the twilight, I've never seen a map use infinitely resurrecting chaingun guys.

Hmm? Skepland uses those liberally and PRCP map20 directly channels Twilight. I'm sure it's not that uncommon. And it's actually Plutonia map27 which left deep soul scars, because the archvile there is almost unkillable.

[Never_Again]

Epic 2 MAP13 can have ghost aliens with AVs resurrecting them right through the walls.