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Zulk RS

BFG: 9K or 10?

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Remember when a lot of guys used Skulltag? We got extra power-ups, weapons and monsters. One of these extra weapons was the BFG 10K. It rapidly fired BFG shots that instead of damaging everything in sight, did splash damage in a way similar to a rocket. Individual shots didn't do the same damage as an individual BFG 9K shot. But it consumed less ammo.
I want to know, which BFG is preferred by the players. The Insanely powerful BFG 9K. Or the Over-powered Plasma Rifle BFG 10K?

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It's too easy to commit suicide with BFG 10K, otherwise it's not a bad weapon, IMO even better balanced than 9K. BFG 9K is a bit gimmicky to use, and often shows to be a game-breaking weapon for balanced mapsets. Anyway, it's a classic, and its behaviour peculiarities are relatively easy to master.

I'd actually welcome BFG10K if it was available in vanilla instead of 9K, now that I think about it.

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Plus the BFG10K is one of the best sprites in the whole of SkullTag. I wish SkullTag was still alive...

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ducon said:

It’s Quake 3’S BFG.

Not quite, Quake III's BFG fired super-fast projectiles. ST's 10K fires explosive hitscans.

Joe667 said:

I wish SkullTag was still alive...

It is, under the name Zandronum. As for finding servers actually using the ST resources however, they're generally rarer than rocking-horse shit. You might have to start your own.

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Joe667 said:

Plus the BFG10K is one of the best sprites in the whole of SkullTag.

It's an old version of Eriance's Demon Eclipse BFG 9000. Its design is based on the BFG 9000 of the Doom movie.

Joe667 said:

I wish SkullTag was still alive...

http://zandronum.com/

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... This is going to sound stupid. I wanted to make this a poll but I can't figure out how to post a poll (or make this existing thread into one).

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You can't post a poll in Doom General, only in WADs&Mods or Everything Else. You'll see the options available when starting a new thread in one of those subforums.

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The 10k is a bland, inelegant weapon. It's fine if you like true spam I suppose but I'd take the 9k any day of the week.

And yeah, Skulltag lives on through Zandronum. If you miss the custom gamemodes it provided so much perhaps you could bother playing them in the new port. They're still supported.

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The BFG9000 is Doom and Doom is the BFG9000. Seriously, this gun has made Doom the terrific game that it is. You can't just replace it with a standard explosion auto-launcher and expect the game to be half as memorable.

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Csonicgo said:

EE still has it. it's amazing. I actually recommend it, since it makes more sense on a gameplay level.

Wait, is there any possibility to actually see it in Eternity Engine ingame? How?

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Csonicgo said:

EE still has it. it's amazing. I actually recommend it, since it makes more sense on a gameplay level.

Yeah it's kinda funny how you can change the BFG behavior in Eternity on the fly. There's also the press release Christmas spam, a "plasma burst" where the big ball explodes unleashing smaller green plasma in all directions, and my favorite, bouncing plasma where the big ball goes from monster to monster as long as it finds some. Best part is that since it's kinda slow, it can be used to kill monsters that aren't there yet when you shoot, e.g. it can kill a pain elemental and then kill the lost souls that spawned in the elemental's death throes. Also works well for teleport ambushes.

It needs a "random" mode, though. :)

scifista42 said:

Wait, is there any possibility to actually see it in Eternity Engine ingame? How?

Options -> Weapons (under the "Game options" header) -> BFG type.

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Gez said:

Options -> Weapons (under the "Game options" header) -> BFG type.

Thanks, I've gave them all a try, they're pretty fun to use indeed as you said. :)

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Csonicgo said:

EE still has it. it's amazing. I actually recommend it, since it makes more sense on a gameplay level.

That's what I was aiming for - a BFG that made sense.

I'm sure most people have read the BFG FAQ (or nowadays, the wiki) and after some experimentation, managed to understand how the BFG works (all that crazy stuff about tracers firing out of the player when the BFG ball hits). It's certainly not the most intuitive of weapons. The 11K fires the tracers out of the BFG ball instead.

The other thing it does is damage the player if he/she is too close to the blast when the ball hits. Again, this makes "intuitive" sense (if BFG balls cause this devastating level of damage it's pretty crazy the player should just be mysteriously immune to it). But it also serves an important purpose: in source ports like SMMU that let you look (and aim) up and down, if you fire the BFG9000 straight at the floor in front of you, you can immediately trigger the tracers to fire out of you at whatever's in front of you. It changes the game mechanics of the BFG and makes it into a really cheap weapon. So the 11K is supposed to discourage that.

The other thing SMMU let you do was allow you to look up and down while always keeping the weapon facing forward. Again, same thing.

Gez said:

my favorite, bouncing plasma where the big ball goes from monster to monster as long as it finds some. Best part is that since it's kinda slow, it can be used to kill monsters that aren't there yet when you shoot, e.g. it can kill a pain elemental and then kill the lost souls that spawned in the elemental's death throes. Also works well for teleport ambushes.

That was my doing too. It's basically just a crazy hack that I came up with some afternoon 15 years ago :) One of the other things I tried was a BFG ball that would fire multiple BFG balls when it hit the wall - the idea was that I wanted to see if I could make a BFG that you could fire and have the ball bounce through the entire level and destroy everything. However, if one BFG ball spawns multiple BFG balls, there's this nasty (and hilarious) failure case where it leads to an exponential increase in BFG balls that slows the game to a crawl and/or crashes the computer.

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Ugh, since I mentioned that I wished SkullTag was alive, everyone's been telling me about this new thing called "Zandronum" - I already have an account for that and play it regularly! What I meant was, I just wished it had never died. But thanks for the pointers, I guess.

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BFG9000 is my choice. Why? Because 10K seems more like an overpowered version of Plasma Gun than an original weapon. It may as well be a pistol that shoots over 9000 bullets per second.

Joe667 said:

Ugh, since I mentioned that I wished SkullTag was alive, everyone's been telling me about this new thing called "Zandronum" - I already have an account for that and play it regularly! What I meant was, I just wished it had never died. But thanks for the pointers, I guess.


[SARCASM MODE]
Uhh, yeah, about that: There's this awesome new thing called "Zandronum" out there, you totally should try it :D

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I go with the BFG 10000. I think it forces splash damage to monsters that are usually immune to that, so to compensate, I kill or hurt myself every now and then with it.

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The BFG9000 is the best gun in any video game ever and will never be surpassed. If you deny this fact, you will be summarily BFG'd ;)

Seriously though, I would love to see a ZDoom wad that incorporates all BFG varieties - The Press relese BFG, 10k from Skulltag, 10k from Q3, 11k, and any other varieties I may be forgetting. Since Romero recently released that proto-BFG sprite, it would make it even easier.

Heck, that could even be a good gimmick for a mapset!

Joe667 said:

Ugh, since I mentioned that I wished SkullTag was alive, everyone's been telling me about this new thing called "Zandronum"

HEY MAN THERE'S THIS PROGRAM CALLED ZANTORUM-
(violently/deservedly murdered)

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ducon said:

It’s Quake 3’S BFG.

It was also Quake 2's only it works much closer to Doom's.

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Doomkid said:

The BFG9000 is the best gun in any video game ever and will never be surpassed. If you deny this fact, you will be summarily BFG'd ;)


I have to disagree with you here. There is 1 weapon I know that can surpass the BFG9000. That's the Twin Laser from Raptor: Call of the Shadows.

The Twin Laser is an insanely powerful and insanely expensive weapon. It fires 2 Azure colored laser beams which can hit both air and ground targets. It can destroy bosses in just 2 to 4 direct hits. Most normal enemies are dead if you can just hit them with one of 2 beams. To make matters worse (for your foes) it can fire rapidly at the rate of about 1 shot per second (it fires 2 beams at once). It doesn't actually damage everything in your field of view but it DOES have unlimited ammo (no cheats required).
So I'd say THIS is the best weapon in any video game with the BFG9000 coming in for a close 2nd.

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Weapons always have infinite ammo in the scrolling shmup genre.

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Avoozl said:

It was also Quake 2's only it works much closer to Doom's.


Quake 2’s has a big green ball and lasers from its centre.

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BlackFish said:

Beta BFG9k was my favorite.


This, if only because it was so pretty.

Otherwise, the 9k is a classic, but I personally find it impractical for Multiplayer. The 10k was a good substitute, and I prefer it over Quake III's BFG. The Quake 2 BFG (Also called a 10k) probably falls somewhere in the middle of of Doom's and Skulltag's, if only because it was fairly useful for Singleplayer and Multiplayer. I'm actually glad Doom 3's BFG replicated the Q2 gun.

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ducon said:

Quake 2’s has a big green ball and lasers from its centre.

But my point is it acts more like Doom's than Quake 3's does, and despite the extra visuals of lasers it still attacks every enemy in the vicinity without the ball needing to touch them just the same.

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