Ultimate Doom “In Name Only” - [Limit Removing] - Artist for titlepic/M-Doom etc needed

[DJVCardMaster]

New update

-Less shells/more ammo rockets (still not final)
-monsters can use windows more on their advantage
-removed two doors and made the two windows on the middle room connecting to the nukage containers passageways, making those two areas connect and provide one more alternative route.
-Removed all innecessary monster blocking lines, specially on the final room, talking about it...
-... final room fight improved a bit; if you decide to go here and find it's the exit, you can get back with no fighting, but enemies will follow
-BK caco trap opens from both sides
-A little bit more detail




Let's see if this got any better. It felt different than the other one.

[dobu gabu maru]

7 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Let's see if this got any better. It felt different than the other one.

 

It's not.

 

Like yeah, I notice the second chaingun and green armor placement change, but the map still has a lot of the same shortcomings. Enemies can leave the exit room but they won't because the stairs are too narrow for the barons and pinkies to effectively follow you (though I do like the cacos coming out of the window). The YK trap can still be easily fled from. The room that lowers the SFALL barriers is still cluttered to hell, the eastern room at the start now has the cacos flying through the window which makes it a sub-optimal path to the blue key, there's still pinkies everywhere, and I counted that you added six—six!—more rockets. That's barely enough to kill a single baron, and this map has twelve of them. And I was still tripping over shotgun shells.

 

There's nothing wrong with lightly rebalancing a map, it's just that the map has to be near completion in order for the touches to feel effective, and this map still needs some polishing. You hit on the right idea by granting the player access into the area with the green armor—that's more of what your map should honestly have. But almost everything else is the same, and I wouldn't recommend anyone that's already played the map to try out this version, as it still needs another revision. Speaking of...

 

8 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

-Less shells/more ammo rockets (still not final)

 

You really, really shouldn't upload a map for us to test when you know it's not even the final version. Providing minor updates can easily fatigue playtesters, and almost all of the designated playtesters here are folks still working on maps of their own, so we're already playing a lot of Doom as-is. If you're not against it, I'd recommend having Jaws take a peek at the map to see what he can do with it.

 

I hope this isn't coming off as too grouchy, it's just that this first revision didn't feel all that promising.

[cannonball]

I agree with Dobu here. I think if Jaws is still interested then perhaps pinging the map between the pair of you via private message may be a better route. That way when the time come to repost the map then hopefully it will be in an almost finished for the project state baring the usual fixes here and there.

[Jaws In Space]

Yeah I'm on it.

[DJVCardMaster]

Fine then, I'm looking forward to see Jaws works! Thanks for the help

[riderr3]

In my first maps, I also forgot to put better weapons/ammo for meatier eneimies, and this made the maps too grindy. Especially in Ultimate Doom, the more important is monster placement, since there are not so many of them and in this case you need to rely on other methods rather than "just put more mid-tiers and bunch of ammo".

[DJVCardMaster]

9 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

In my first maps, I also forgot to put better weapons/ammo for meatier eneimies, and this made the maps too grindy. Especially in Ultimate Doom, the more important is monster placement, since there are not so many of them and in this case you need to rely on other methods rather than "just put more mid-tiers and bunch of ammo".

I feel like I don't remember how to even place mid-tiers even on Doom 2, my new maps suffer of this for some reason, I remember making more enjoyable maps on that sense although they had afwul tier aesthetics-layouts, back when I was a kid.

That's why I usually flood maps with hitscanners in a TNT MAP09 style.

[Jaws In Space]

Knocking down walls. Still a lot more work to do tomorrow.

[DJVCardMaster]

All right, Jaws has made a really solid work on fixing this map, making some of the areas flow more, removing doors, adding a little bit more of difficulty, and most importantly, switching gameplay to chaingun.
From Jaws update, some few tweaks were added, like a little "ladder" access from the nukage container room to the stone halls, little aesthetic addons on said hall, texture alignment, a little bit more of ammo balancing since there was too much of it. And some other minor changes that are barely noticeable.

Download Link

Be sure to properly credit Jaws in Space  on his edits on this one.




I think even though it could be finished at some point it could be subject of change 'till the very end of the project, so feel free to point everything

[dobu gabu maru]

14 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

All right, Jaws has made a really solid work on fixing this map, making some of the areas flow more, removing doors, adding a little bit more of difficulty, and most importantly, switching gameplay to chaingun.I think even though it could be finished at some point it could be subject of change 'till the very end of the project, so feel free to point everything

 

I like the little ladder into the hallway. Also the new midi is well appreciated. The green armor by the soulsphere & cell secret is completely useless, as two green armors is enough for the map & that specific one is too close to another green armor. I also think there should be a second rocket launcher somewhere, as there's enough imps that the shotgun gameplay can get a little repetitive (for instance, shooting all those imps at the top of the blue staircase). Maybe having a second rocket launcher in the BK-locked room would be an okay compromise. I'd also pull a lot of the enemies out of that room or hide them around corners and make them deaf, as the combat there is very door-campy.

 

I've played this map so many times that I think I'm good until we're ready for beta testing. As for me, E4M3's pathing is finished, so now I just have to figure out what I want to do with its anterior rooms.

 

 

Going for a more classic feel where the map isn't overdetailed to hell and back. That way I can hopefully wrap it up soon. Then most of the maps that need to be worked on are being handled by people that are currently active on DW, which helps put my mind at ease. Hopefully @Steve D hasn't forgot about us, as he's the last of the folks that promised us some maps years ago.

[Steve D]

11 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Hopefully @Steve D hasn't forgot about us, as he's the last of the folks that promised us some maps years ago.

 

Indeed, I have not forgotten y'all! I've been thrilled to see this slumbering project spring into voracious life, and I've wanted to make a post but have been hamstrung as usual by IRL nonsense. However, I have pledged to our boss that I will now set aside all other projects and finish my last 2 maps in the next 2 months. So there!!!! :D

[Peanut]

If E4M7 is open, I wouldn't mind filling the slot. Been feeling the mapper's itch for a hot second. If it ain't done in the next one to two weeks, you can clear me from the roster.

[Jaws In Space]

15 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

...like a little "ladder" access from the nukage container room to the stone halls...

I would suggest giving that new doorway some sound blocking lines along with having the imps & zombiemen by the blue stairs facing east. This prevents some of the monsters from wandering all over the map.

[_bruce_]

Made some progress on E4M1 and still thinking how to find an optimal substitute for the map's lightsources which were sky based and gave a nice "airy" atmosphere.

 

Update - it's pretty much done now but I I'll try to tweak it somewhat further.

[cannonball]

12 hours ago, Peanut said:

If E4M7 is open, I wouldn't mind filling the slot. Been feeling the mapper's itch for a hot second. If it ain't done in the next one to two weeks, you can clear me from the roster.

Well okay the slot is yours. 

The op will be updated when I return home from a long weekend away. That includes map updates/e2m3 etc etc 

[Quantum Dranger]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/psgudsw3ff3a7pl/E3M8B.wad/file

 

I've tried my best to make the map more balanced and resolve some of the issues with level design, the main focus being making the item to monster ratio fairer. Thoughts?

Edited March 3, 2019 by Quantum Dranger : broke link

[Jaws In Space]

DJV asked me to make any further updates to E2M3. Here's a minor one making a few changes past the blue key door such as adjusting some of the thing placement & hopefully making what the switch in there does a little bit clearer. Also added the sound blocking lines by the ladder. I left all 3 armors in the map, depending on what path you take through the map you can get by perfectly fine with only 2 armors, though some path's do require all 3. I'd rather there be a surplus rather than a lack of armor.

 

Update

[dobu gabu maru]

5 hours ago, Quantum Dranger said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j5zp7frg55yyz5c/E3M8B.wad/file

 

I've tried my best to make the map more balanced and resolve some of the issues with level design, the main focus being making the item to monster ratio fairer. Thoughts?

You may want to reupload—I keep getting a webpage that says the upload is still pending. Better yet, just zip the file and attach it to your post via doomworld

[DukeOfDoom]

Is this project still going?

[dobu gabu maru]

Yes. All mapslots are currently filled however.

[cannonball]

@Quantum Dranger - I get the same message as others so I think this needs to be re-uploaded again.

 

E2M3 - It certainly feels better to play but I will give it another go later when I am not getting ready for work and have time to give more specific feedback.

[_bruce_]

Made a slight structural change and refined some of the lighting.

For me the map is "done" now but I want to play through it one more time in the evening when the lights are low to see if the, subtle, changes were worth it(excluding the starting area and the "sky").

 

I'll post a link to the file on Sunday so that it can be tested/refined.

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by _bruce_ : wording

[Quantum Dranger]

 

On 2/23/2019 at 12:10 PM, Quantum Dranger said:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/psgudsw3ff3a7pl/E3M8B.wad/file

 

I've tried my best to make the map more balanced and resolve some of the issues with level design, the main focus being making the item to monster ratio fairer. Thoughts?

This new link should work. Original post edited.

[Peanut]

Spoiler

Just a quick update on my end. Wanted to show my work so far. Layout's almost done, then I just need to work in all the gameplay elements and some minor details.

[dobu gabu maru]

On 3/3/2019 at 2:29 AM, Quantum Dranger said:

This new link should work. Original post edited.

 

The map really doesn't do anything to fix the number of issues that it has. Progression is really wonky and feels imbalanced (going right nets you an RL with 100 rockets, going left gets you a... chaingun?), there's too many shells and demons, and the SMM is too annoying to tackle while a random spray of imp fireballs surround you. It's kind of interesting in a "how am I supposed to do this?" sort of way, but it doesn't feel finely tuned for that type of experience; a lot of the enemies and items feel thrown in here "just because", rather than to fulfill a specific purpose. If you'd like, I can always adjust and tweak the map myself, as IMO this and E3M4 are the only maps that really need some major adjustments.

 

Speaking of, @Walter confetti: I think you should revisit E3M4's "House of Pain" and try and remove any grindy spots on the map and double down on the "pain" aspect of the map. The latter half is congested with barons which just aren't fun to fight, and progression can probably be streamlined a little. I really like the look of the map as well as all the trap shenanigans (like that floor that drops into a damaging sector)—you should focus on a bit more of that stuff. Honestly, removing like, 30 enemies could go a long way to making it at least more fun to blast through.

[Walter confetti]

Thanks, i see that all the problems on the map is to make it more "painful", right?

Is something that you and cannonball find out while playing my map... i think i'll gonna work on that section...

Also, can you show me where the most of the grindy spots are found in the map?

[dobu gabu maru]

 

Delete the enemies in red circles. Put a cacodemon in the yellow circle. Move the plasma gun over to a cubby at the green circle (so the player has to slip by the crusher). Turn the box of shells at the pink circle into a cell pack. Make the door in the blue circle able to be opened from both sides (just make the sectors with the cacos already raised). There's probably a few other changes you could make too (for instance, there's very little health in the first part of the map).

 

---

 

Anyway, I've finished E4M3: Sever the Wicked. Difficulties are included. I'm not great with chainsaw oriented gameplay so I did a lot more save/reload stuff than usual, which might make tilt the level towards being more unfair/slow? Only thing I'm debating is whether or not to add a second green armor in on UV, as the map demands the player grab the blue armor or squander all the healing I've sprinkled about. But I feel that kind of intense "know-the-map-or-die" design fits in with Ultimate Doom's E4 philosophy.

[dobu gabu maru]

I updated GRB's E2M7 to be limit removing, and personally changed a bit of progression around since some of it felt too esoteric (like getting to the YK). I also added the RL in earlier since there's really no reason to deprive the player of it. Enemies remain the same (though I did ditch most of the cacos at the BK since no one wants to fight 5 cacos in an easily avoidable cage). Hopefully all the changes are fine—the spirit of the map remains wholly intact. Download here.

 

So I got about three things left that I personally want to do for the project before simply waiting for other folks to finish their maps:

 

- Fix E3M8 with Dranger's permission

- Add difficulties to E4M8

- Find some music to replace all the stock Doom tunes

 

Hopefully by the end of May we can release a full beta for the project.

Edited March 6, 2019 by dobu gabu maru

[galileo31dos01]

@dobu gabu maru 

 

Played your map in Crispy Doom, HMP. Things:

 

- In regards to speed I believe the map can be tackled in 4-6 minutes knowing what to do, it took me over 15 blind and missed a secret and few items. Is it slow-paced? Not necessary, considering the run you do to acquire the chainsaw. Afterwards it's about killing weaklings first to gain space and let the cacos soften the barons, which shouldn't take that long with the right approach. Spectres were the worst in my case because, duh spectres, but in the meantime it works to use cacos to distract the barons, then chainsaw their backs while they're infighting at close range. Ignoring blockmap and elastic collisions (hard to ignore them though), it's all doable with minimum damage, and health is plentiful.

 

- On HMP I used both green and blue armors when needed, and left the other green one untouched, though also left the map with 0% armor because (*). If UV includes more hitscanners then maybe that second green armor should stay there, or say plenty more cacos/lost souls, since chainsawing cacos isn't 100% safe (RNG blessed me this time) and lost souls are like mosquitoes basically. Perhaps you can move that armor in a secret.

    - (*) lava soaked a lot of my HP, and the only way back to the start point is via the crushers section. That part seemed too brutal to repeat :P

 

- I'm not sure I agree with this and all the possible SG grabs. I thought this was going to be a chainsaw map :C

 

- Last but not least, loved it <3

[dobu gabu maru]

42 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

- I'm not sure I agree with this and all the possible SG grabs. I thought this was going to be a chainsaw map :C

Thanks for playing! Due to how constrictive the map is, I can't do a lot to mitigate the player swiping the shotgun off a dead sergeant; I figure it's always like an extra bonus if you manage to grab one, as like 60% of the map still has to be chainsaw'd to death. Thanks for the info on the armor stuff too.