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cannonball

Ultimate Doom In Name Only - Limit removing project

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So as Dobu said above, the maps that still don't have an entry are.

E1M2 (Steve D)

E1M7 This is actually empty as the last person to claim it, rescinded it due to PC issues at the time. So I will open the slot now.

E3M7 (Magnusblitz)

 

So a brief update on E1M2 and E3M7 from the mappers who have claimed that slot would be great, it doesn't have to be much. Just more of an idea of what is going on.

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4 minutes ago, cannonball said:

So a brief update on E1M2 and E3M7 from the mappers who have claimed that slot would be great, it doesn't have to be much. Just more of an idea of what is going on.

 

Ah, yes, I have sucked on E1M2. But now that I've just finished a map for another project, it's time to start on M2, as in tonight.

 

In other news, I've tweaked Against Thee Wickedly. This implements ALL of Dobu's suggestions to the letter, but only on UV to make it more challenging. It's been tested by one Doom God who liked it. I also added lighting detail in the Rockred corridors because they were too plain. If you think UV is too rough, I can replace all the missing health and armor into this version. I personally haven't played it yet. The idea scares me. ;D

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17 minutes ago, Steve D said:

 

Ah, yes, I have sucked on E1M2. But now that I've just finished a map for another project, it's time to start on M2, as in tonight.

 

In other news, I've tweaked Against Thee Wickedly. This implements ALL of Dobu's suggestions to the letter, but only on UV to make it more challenging. It's been tested by one Doom God who liked it. I also added lighting detail in the Rockred corridors because they were too plain. If you think UV is too rough, I can replace all the missing health and armor into this version. I personally haven't played it yet. The idea scares me. ;D

 

Just had a quick play through, i didn't think it was crazy difficult or anything. You should double check your pain sectors in this map, i was taking damage on some rock sectors (near sector tag 10) which i assume is not intended.

 

Spoiler

My strategy was to basically to play semi-pacifist, luring monsters into the central area and have the cybs kill them for me.

I got the blue key (and therefore the plasma gun) last, so i had the cybs alive the whole time. I didn't bother killing them in the end cause grinding down multiple cybs with the plasma gun is kinda meh. I don't think i even used any cells in the end :P  Maybe it would be good if there was a BFG on the map, perhaps accessible after all 3 keys are obtained, this would remove the potential cyb grind, and give the option of rushing all 3 keys and playing very aggressively. You could perhaps place it on the rocky ledge where 600 cells are so that players know they can get a BFG at a certain point.

 

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48 minutes ago, Scotty said:

 

Just had a quick play through, i didn't think it was crazy difficult or anything. You should double check your pain sectors in this map, i was taking damage on some rock sectors (near sector tag 10) which i assume is not intended.

 

Okay, quick turnaround. Here's another version of Against Thee Wickedly ;D

 

Thanks for catching that foul-up on the stairs, Scotty. They were a late edition, built from the lava lake. Shoulda caught that. My bad.

 

I think you make a good point about the BFG. Personally, I kinda like killing Cybs with the PG, since I can get them at distance, but as you say, with 3 of them, players are encouraged to run for the exit instead of fighting, especially if their health situation isn't great. That's what the other tester did. I'm a bit torn on this one, because unlike past maps which were designed to kill Demon of the Well -- and failed, except for 2 of them -- this one is geared to intimidating players at my lowly skill level. I believe it will succeed in that goal. I anticipate players panicking once they realize they're on 10% lava without a radsuit in sight, and with Cybs prowling the upper level. Some percentage of them will hit on your strategy but won't be able to execute it as well. Probably a lot of players will engage in bitter speculation about my heritage as they melt on lava or eat a rocket. In short, I won't be trying to kill players at your skill level until some of the later maps of Grinning Like An Undertaker, and that's a ways off. Still, the ability to kill Cybs more expeditiously with a BFG will be great for any speedrunners who want to max the map, so I'm willing to do it. If cb wants that change, I'll happily comply.

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7 hours ago, xvertigox said:

@cannonball What's the deadline? I'm keen to pickup E1M7 slot but the map will be a few weeks out as I'm hosting January's DBP.

I think the deadline will be further away than that, so if you are sure then I can mark you down for the slot.

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On 12/17/2019 at 5:22 PM, cannonball said:

So a brief update on E1M2 and E3M7 from the mappers who have claimed that slot would be great, it doesn't have to be much. Just more of an idea of what is going on.

 

Magnus messaged me and said that he took a spin at E3M7 a few times but hasn't been happy with the results. Said he'd like to give it one more try if he can find time to work on it. If the other maps get finished up within a few months I think he's more than willing to relinquish the slot if he's made no progress.

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On 12/18/2019 at 9:10 PM, Bloodskull said:

Hi can I take e1m7 please?

At this moment in time, xvertigox has claimed the slot. Sorry for the rather lengthy delay in reply, but given it is the Christmas period and I see to be driving around the country to the point where Greta Thunberg might try to hunt me down and kill me with a rusty spork. 

 

@dobu gabu maru cheers for the update. Of Magnus is a little stumped, there is no harm posting something on here as maybe someone might have a solution or two to get around any issues.

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Posted (edited)

I've been slaving away on E1M2 and hope to have it done by this coming Friday. Here's a few sneak peeks.

 

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My goal was to create a map smaller and easier than my last attempt at E1M2, which had 579 monsters. That map has found a happy home as E2M6 of Deadly Standards 2 -- a much more appropriate slot. This new map is pretty big, but it plays fast and so far there's only 134 monsters in it. But you'll feel them. ;D

 

My hope is to finalize the map with 180 monsters or less. Trust me, this map is dead easy. It won't leave you alone, and it's possible to die if you make a few mistakes, but mostly it's aggressive yet easy play, unlike my previous effort.

 

I'm using some E2ish elements -- the vines, marble faces, and elsewhere, SP_Rock. I can replace these with pure E1 textures if you'd like.

 

As you can see, I'm not using the map provided by @mouldy, although I plan to work on that, too. That map is quite small, and I'd basically just finish the texturing, detailing and throw in the gameplay. Something tells me I'd make the action more vicious than in this map. I originally planned to have a start in the above map where you could see the cooling towers in mouldy's map, and I wanted to figure a way to reach his architecture through mine, but it didn't work out. The styles clash, so IMO it's better to finish mouldy's map after I finish mine. That way, you have 2 to choose from, cb, and no matter which choice you make, I'll use the other map elsewhere. :)

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Question, cb; Is it okay if we send our maps to HAK3180 and Austinado for playtesting?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Steve D said:

Question, cb; Is it okay if we send our maps to HAK3180 and Austinado for playtesting?

 

I don't think there's ever a problem sending maps to other members to playtest--UDINO is an open community project after all.

 

Lemme know if you'd like me to make some visual adjustments for mouldy's map ;)

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Steve D said:

Question, cb; Is it okay if we send our maps to HAK3180 and Austinado for playtesting?


I see no reason to say no to this. It should make any tweaks/suggestions fewer in number when it does arrive here.

As for the pics above, it’s nice to see that you have stuck to your guns with the style of big rooms and bulky architecture. You love adding those marble figures into your E1 maps don’t you? I might need to think about that regard, especially as the map is early on in the episode. The vines I wouldn’t consider hellish, just any flesh or marble textures used.

Edited by cannonball

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27 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

 

I don't think there's ever a problem sending maps to other members to playtest--UDINO is an open community project after all.

 

Lemme know if you'd like me to make some visual adjustments for mouldy's map ;)

 

Cool! I'm always up for some Dobu Magic. I'm guessing I'll have that map ready in about a month.

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20 minutes ago, cannonball said:


I see no reason to say no to this. It should make any tweaks/suggestions fewer in number when it does arrive here.

As for the pics above, it’s nice to see that you have stuck to your guns with the style of big rooms and bulky architecture. You love adding those marble figures into your E1 maps don’t you? I might need to think about that regard, especially as the map is early on in the episode. The vines I wouldn’t consider hellish, just any flesh or marble textures used.

 

Happy to hear it's okay to send the maps out for testing. And yes, I love adding marble faces to my E1 maps. It's the Fava Beans influence. Corrupted bases forever! ;D And there's the Skulwall in there, too . . . but I can change all that, no problem.

 

I could have done a smaller map with almost any other map name, but Nuclear Plant just sounds like it needs to be big and imposing. Yet mouldy whipped out a neat little map that got the idea across with abstract yet representational architecture. My mind just works a different way, but I really like his way, too, which is why I'm going to finish it after all this time. I think it'll be fun.

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I agree with Cannonball, I think the vines are fine but I'd avoid the overt E2 hellish stuff like the marble faces or wall of skulls. Maybe you can sneak in one or two here and there as a 'whoa wtf' type moment but having them slathered all over feels too E2.

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Nice work, guys! I played Command Control and Hell Keep. I really liked Hell Keep. Brilliant architecture. Looking out at the cool area you couldn't reach made me think that area would have been great as a place you could reach (maybe a secret?) Maybe you can reach it, but it looked decorative rather than explorable. Anyway, looking out at that area had the right kind of feeling for me, except that it wasn't part of the level as far as I could tell. If you could make it part of the level I think that would be awesome. I'm envisioning being able to enter that area from the right and then dropping down slowly to the left into a small dungeon area out of view to the left.

 

Command Control also had nice architecture and I really liked the flow of the level--the layout was very good; you did a really good job with naturally implementing optional areas to explore as well. My biggest suggestion I can give is break up some of that startan a bit more with other textures (64 wide metal1 with support2 on either side are nice ways to do this--or some kind of tech texture). And maybe put in some more shadows in the lighter areas (the dark spectre area was done really well, though). 

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Finally! Here's Nuclear Plant

 

Info

Map: E1M2

Requires: udino_liquids.wad

Music: Cover of Pinball Dreams (Amiga) Menu Theme by Friendly Floyd, original by Olaf Gustafson

Monster Count on UV: 190 (GZDoom), 184 (PrBoom)

Difficulty Settings: Implemented

 

Story: You're dropped off at the back entrance of an old nuclear plant, but you see strange evidence of hellspawn infestation, plus a trio of brand new radio antennas. You penetrate deeper into the facility and find a heavily guarded barge loaded up with crates. After a desperate battle, you enter the main hall of the facility and find crates being packed with nukage barrels. This is clearly an illicit operation sending barrels of nuclear waste to the nearby Toxin Refinery, where it will be fortified in vast settling vats.

 

In spite of the huge number of monsters guarding this operation, you bravely enter the fray and engage in a pitched battle against the dastardly zombies and the depraved hellspawn! You find a key that grants you entrance into a holding warehouse adjoining the nukage factory itself. Fighting your way through, you eventually reach the reactor room, where your mission is to eliminate its dread guardians before reporting back to high command so they can send a team to secure the area.

 

One entrance to the warehouse of sorrow!

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Thrill to the sight of Doom forklifts!

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The spine-tingling nukage-barrel assembly line!

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The mysterious Reactor Room of death!

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The cooling towers of the gods!

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I will soon start finishing mouldy's map for E1M2, which will be smaller and with fewer monsters. Kowabunga!!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Firedust said:

190 monsters? That's very modest by steved standards :p

 

LOL!

 

Last time I used 579 for E1M2, which caused a bit of concern . . . ;)

 

But don't worry, there's still some moderately big fights.

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Excellent map Steve, A+ for effort—this is the kind of map I really want to see for UDINO, and thank god it's actually beatable in 10 minutes :P

 

Had quite a bit of fun wandering around the facility and scoping out all the nifty sector detail (of COURSE there's a boat), and you actually scored two pelts off me because I was woefully under-equipped for the entire experience (one in the harbor when I took a hit from THREE sergeants at the same time, and one at the final fight due to infinite height). By that, I mean that I never found the secret weapons (I have no idea how I missed the chaingun at the start) so I was speeding past every cacodemon I saw, which got quite... cumbersome in the final room, as you can imagine. Was still a fun experience, and I can't stress enough how cool it was to see the forklifts of explosive barrels, in/out doors controlled by switches, and control rods in the reactor room. It's a map that has that perfect blend of realism that doesn't come at the cost of gameplay.

 

The main suggestion I have is to place a second rocket launcher and chaingun somewhere in the map, as having missed both made the map a bit harder than it needed to be. second rocket launcher could be in the final room (the reactor room) so it gives the player a chance to blow themselves up there, and the second chaingun should probably be behind the red key doors. Also, in case you didn't know, it's possible for the player to strafe jump across here:

 

hHU8BY2.jpg

 

Could be a fun speedrunning trick to keep in if you wanted, however. I'd advise putting lights on the sides of Sector 290 (its next to the door that let's the player get back to the water-filled hallways) just because it's real easy to miss when running by. I'd also untag sector 262 as secret and remove those goodies just because there's already a secret sector up on the boxes with goodies (meaning you'll have to make the jump twice to get them both), and the light from down below can block the jump.

 

Also you got a good chuckle out of me from that one secret. Nice work, all in all.

 

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Only 2 maps to go! Yay! I can't believe it's already been nearly 6 years since the project announcement. I'm sure you guys will do a better job than D2INO :D

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@dobu gabu maru Glad you liked it, and thanks for the suggestions. I applied most of them to the new version of Nuclear Plant.

 

I added the lights in Sector 290 and made it blink. I added a second RL and CG in the room where IMO they're most needed -- the big fight room. Perhaps I can make them a little more distant from the central door. I tend to fight that room by blowing up some barrels immediately to take out a bunch of Sergeants, but other players might tip-toe to one or the other weapon and hope they remain unseen before opening fire. I did a zero-secret run and bypassed the first RL to see how it plays. I died 3 times, but mainly because I was trying to force a multi-Caco kill over the barrels. Otherwise, everything seemed to work fine.

 

I left Sector 262 as a secret because, while I guess you strafe-jumped to Sector 169, that's not intended progression. That was the older secret, and you can platform there from Sector 137 or leap down from Sector 136. The Sector 262 secret came late when I accidentally discovered I could climb one object and saw the potential for a secret that I'm guessing relatively few will find. ;) Thus, it's possible that players will reach the secret in Sector 169 but not the one in Sector 262, so I'd like to give them secret credit for that. We'll see how it works out.

 

At this point, I think I'm ready to send a map package to HAK3180. 

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E1M2

 

Yeah this one is certainly interesting to look at and indeed play. Quite a large play area and a rather dense distribution of monsters for the most part. Nothing took long or hard though.

I guess as we discussed in private that maybe for thematic reasons there could be a few visual tweaks to remove the somewhat corrupt nature of the base. I still feel that way, also I think the narrow doors at the start with demons behind it offers nothing really more than to slow the player down with no proper threat, either use a wider door or lose the demons on that ledge and replace them with something smaller. 

It was strange to have such a large area around the red key, and not have a big ambush, likewise with the masses of barrels, which for the most part are not rally useful to the player. Oddly I kind of likes the pointless destructiveness and the use of tension with no climax used here. It probably should be done more often.

Overall I really liked the map. 

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1 hour ago, cannonball said:

I guess as we discussed in private that maybe for thematic reasons there could be a few visual tweaks to remove the somewhat corrupt nature of the base. I still feel that way, also I think the narrow doors at the start with demons behind it offers nothing really more than to slow the player down with no proper threat, either use a wider door or lose the demons on that ledge and replace them with something smaller. 

It was strange to have such a large area around the red key, and not have a big ambush, likewise with the masses of barrels, which for the most part are not rally useful to the player. Oddly I kind of likes the pointless destructiveness and the use of tension with no climax used here. It probably should be done more often.

Overall I really liked the map. 

 

The purpose of the Pinkies behind that door, and why it's so narrow, is to prevent players from running away after grabbing the CG. Natch, if a player grabs the CG and kicks the trap's ass, then as you say, it's just a speed bump. I suppose Imps or zombieboys would be better, since they're more dangerous but not as dangerous as shotgunners, and easier to kill than Demons.

 

I came up with ideas of what to replace the Marbfaces with. They're not as good -- Marbfaces are God-tier textures -- but they'll fit the theme.

 

The barrels are there to menace the player as well as the monsters. You have to be a little careful about your position to avoid serious damage or death. There's also one pair of Cacos that almost always fight each other because they're between an exploding barrel. And then there's the 2 loaded crates. It's possible, but not easy, to get a 4-Caco kill over them. That's really the only thing which makes the fight hard. If you just go in blasting and not worrying about getting monsters with the barrels, the fight is at least 5 times easier, but trying to draw them over the barrels leaves you a bit vulnerable to the mobs.

 

The small red key ambush was partly because I was shooting for 180 monsters total -- I failed -- but also because players might be under some health stress if they didn't find any secrets, so I held back in order to come down harder later. However, unlike last time, I remembered this is E1M2. The reactor room originally had 9 Cacos and 12 Lost Souls and was IMO a bit too rough for the slot.

 

I'll make the suggested changes and have the new version ready soon.

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I liked the masses of barrels, as they add to the atmosphere and (since I had no CG or RL) I had to carefully use them to damage cacos.

 

I played your E4M7 entry @Peanut. Got a lot of... mixed thoughts.

 

First off, the visual presentation of the map is excellent. I like all the missing floorboards in the wood, the stone fragments hewn out of the wall, how vast and open the temple is, and the dark forest on the horizon hiding the big spider meanies. That stuff is very well and good; I also like the premise behind the final fight, as I think running away from a demonic horde in a looping arena while spider masterminds assail you from afar is a great E4M7 finale.

 

The problem I have with the map is threefold: combat, progression, and length, which are all tied together. The third issue—length—is just a bit more of a personal one since my E4M8 comes afterwards and that is also a long map. Not that E4M7 can't be long, mind you, but what I was doing while playing it was being more critical than, say a lot of the maps in the first episode, where incidental and corridor-heavy combat is more acceptable and expected. Like cannonball mentioned, the combat here is waaay on the easier side, and I'm not sure toughening it up is the solution I want per se: the map is so open and large that adding in more hitscanners or cacos would just slow the gameplay down even further, which is not what the map needs. I think the combat can be streamlined to focus on the "And Hell Followed" theme, in which case I'd recommend on showcasing the two fights at the end of the map. Likewise, the progression should probably be streamlined too, as a lot of the time you have a player hit a switch and they have no clue what that did or where to go. There's not really a lot of direct lighting showing the player where to go, and the last arena in particular has a problem with the player running around and being lost.

 

Rather than type out like 3 paragraphs of progression and combat changes, I modified the map to show a smoother progression: download it here. It's super-rough draft and hasn't been properly tested (all the old ammo is still there), but the big things are as follows:

 

- I changed the start to that big room just to give the player an "anchor" to orient themselves around. They know the marb face is the exit (changed it from the swirly portal, as that now goes to the final fight) and they can see the blue key switch and red key switch from this room.

 

- I deleted a whole bunch of enemies from the courtyard and temple proper. Most of these foes are here to waste time, though you could keep a couple of them if you wanted. I just wanted the green temple to be more eerily silent, like the calm before the storm.

 

- The ledge with the old yellow key now has the switch required to gain access to it facing the ledge, so the player can see that the floor has lowered and they can now gain access to the key.

 

- Cacos are needed in the first big battle at the top right in order to make going into the trenches more risky. I'd also put in some stairs or something so the pinkies can go down into the trenches. The switch to access the yellow key is now behind the enemy lines, and I deleted the invul since it's 100% not required.

 

- After getting the yellow key, you could warp in a bunch of hitscanners or cacos at the top left of the map near the red key if you wanted, as I didn't take the time to put in those monster closets. Not sure if it's necessary though... by now the player might want to be heading to the final fight. (I actually considered just having the YK access the final fight, but I like the big twist of the masterminds awakening when the player grabs the red key. If anything, maybe the teleport past the YK door leads right to the red key ledge, and jumping off it awakens the masterminds, so that way the player can't get lost on how to get to the RK)

 

- I didn't touch the final fight other than fixing the staircase where enemies would bunch up, but I realized there's a whole bunch of cracks in the ground that prevent them from wandering around that. I'd get rid of all those cracks and test to make sure the monsters can follow the player around the arena. Also I'd absolutely recommend getting rid of that slow-ass exit drop, and instead put that switch behind where the mastermind is. Another reason I didn't touch this area is that I don't know what triggers lower monster closets and whatnot, but I think this area should be 3 switches to exit at most (maybe you could put a switch behind each spider mastermind platform, and the player has to hit all 3 to escape?)

- I added a second BFG to the final fight and put a blue armor in there, as that fight is real lethal and needs both powerups.

 

You don't have to use the modified map I made—stuff like changing the starting room is largely an aesthetic choice (I wanted to better showcase that cool northern room) I mainly did this to show you how I would design it to be a smoother experience. I think it still needs some serious work, but at least it's a lot better than our previous E4M7.

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Well, wouldn't you know that yet another IRL whirlwind hit in my little world? It's like clockwork! :D

 

Nonetheless, I finally uploaded the new version of Nuclear Plant. The Marbfaces are gone, though I have retained the decorative Stonegarg and SW1Garg at the start. A little teensy-weensy infestation is okay, I hope. ;) The Pinkies behind the first door have been replaced by Imps, even though it's possible to break through them and leave the CG-trap monsters behind. 

 

 

In other news, a trusted tester agreed with @Scotty that I should put a BFG into E4M6. So here is yet another version of Against Thee Wickedly.  In this version the BFG is on the ledge below the Soulsphere, where the player can also grab a bunch of cell packages. That way it's a one-stop shopping experience. ;D My tester also noted a number of Gstone misalignments that I fixed with Support3 borders rather than re-align complicated, curvy hallways -- it was going to be a ton of walls -- but in the fullness of time I may go back and re-align the walls as we get closer to release. If you prefer the non-BFG version, I'll make all those repairs on that one. One last thing, I stumbled across some high walls with no textures and fixed them. Funny that I never saw the texture bleed. 

Edited by Steve D

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