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cannonball

Ultimate Doom In Name Only - Limit removing project

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Magnusblitz said:

it's refreshing to see an original aesthetic and not something slavishly E4.


Yeah i got tired of the ever the same E4-ness.
Glad to hear that my concept seems to work out, thanks for trying it.

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tourniquet said:

Oh well here's my attempt for 'Unruly Evil', no skill settings implemented and there still a few more things i need to rework but before i continue i would like to know if it makes sense at all.


ha this is a great idea and well executed, as was I by countless cyberdemon rockets. I wont shame myself with the fda I recorded, once I could use saves i managed to get through on a combination of tactics and luck. At first I was just trying to avoid the cybers in the hopes of getting some more serious firepower, but that proved pretty suicidal for me, especially after they had cleared out everything else, there was no way to hang around waiting for the lifts without one or both of them getting in my face. Then I tried the method of staying in the top floor until the cyber had killed everything, and then killing it with whatever ammo I could scrape together. That gave me a bit more elbow room to deal with the cyber on the lower floor. Of course the fun wasn't over yet..

The only thing I'd suggest, and feel free to disagree, would be giving the player a soul sphere or something just to ease the pain of working out the mechanics of the map while dodging all the enemies and cyberdemon rockets. It might also encourage players to be a bit more gung ho perhaps, and its a cool map for running around in.

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Ha Cool glad you like it too, i guess the best strategy is to get all 3 keys as quick as possible to reach the exit and grab the BFG which of course helps enormous dealing with the cybs. But there sure are a lot of possible strategies, even pacifist is manageable as long as you get lucky with the randomized lifts.

I recently added a additional Soulsphere secret but sure i can swap it with something else and place the Soulsphere somewhere at the start.
Cheers for playing and the feedback.

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CorSair said:

A really good-looking map. Maybe a little dark in places. Certainly fits its name.

First room: don't usually get to punch Spectres to death. They took care of the Imps, btw. Don't think I used the Shotgun once after the Demons past the first door. Was NOT expecting Barons when I jumped down to find the Rocket Launcher. Ran because there wasn't enough room to use it. Easier on the other side with the Plasma Gun. Barons are all Easy-Medium-Hard. Maybe something lesser for Easy-Medium. Went back to clean them up after I got the Backpack and Cell Packs.

Main room: Played Doom long enough to know that when there's a big open room, there will be attacks from all sides. Grabbed the Chaingun and Bullets and backed out. Went up the stairs. Found Troopers not looking at me. Killed them all. Heard Lost Souls. They charged me, couldn't get past the bars, ran into each other and mostly killed each other. I think there were four left I had to shoot. The bars look good, but in practical terms, they just make it easier to kill the Lost Souls. Ran back down the stairs and up the other side. Found only three Troopers left. Either they killed each other or they shot Lost Souls, which then killed them up against the bars. If you want to keep the bars, maybe the front doors to the upper area should be DR exit only, forcing the Player to go through the main room and use the side exits to get upstairs. Or hide/block the entrances to the front stairs and open them once you enter the upper area from the side stairs.

Once the main room was empty, I ran in, grabbed the Backpack, Rockets and Red Key and quickly ran out the side door past the Cacos and up the stairs to the Red Key door. At first I thought when I opened the Red Key door that nothing could come after me because the step was too high (the first is 8 units high, the second is 17 units high). Then I saw Cacos couldn't get to me either and I realized the steps were monster-blocked. Fish in a barrel. I let the Barons kill everything else and rocketed them. Opened the door and repeated. Ran back down the stairs. There were three Cacos that couldn't come up the stairs from that end either. Both ends of the staircase are monster-blocked. Checked in an editor. ALL your staircases are monster-blocked on both ends.

Main room again. Lots o' Bullets. Killed the Imps in the high wall niches.

Just the exit room left. Lots of Barons. Very hard. Glad I saved the Plasma Gun ammo. Triggered the BFG secret by accident while running around. That made it easier.

Oh, the blood under the Soul Sphere is damaging; the blood on the stairs to the exit room is not. Should probably be consistent. Or change the Soul Sphere blood to lava if you want them to be damaging/non-damaging.

If your intent was to make the map look harder than it actually was, or reward cautious gameplay, you succeeded. That's hard to do well. But I'm not sure how much of what I did was what you intended.

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tourniquet said:

Oh well here's my attempt for 'Unruly Evil', no skill settings implemented and there still a few more things i need to rework but before i continue i would like to know if it makes sense at all.
The maps Vanilla compatible, i just need to double check for potential MaxSprite overflows.

My interpretation of Unruly is smallish map with high enemy density. A system of auomated lifts allows the enemies to chase you throughout the whole map even up to the exit. Once the map unfolds his whole madness things get pretty crazy (at leat as far as it's possible within the static limits).

Map requires the UDINO liquids resource.

Dictionary.reference.com defines unruly as "not submissive or conforming to rule; ungovernable; turbulent; intractable; refractory; lawless". I'm well-read, but I had to look up 'refractory' - "hard or impossible to manage". OK, the map fits the name. I thought I was doing fine, 'managing'. Then I hit a switch and literally, all hell brooke loose. And I died a lot. Wow.

Things:

Really like the use of SLADRIP with BLODGR and PIPE6. I've probably seen it before, but I can't think where. Now that I see it, it's just so obvious a combination. A lighter color choice than the normal sewery dark green.

The non-damaging nukage was a complete surprise. I had been trying to avoid it.

I heard the Spiderboss wake up, but never saw it. I was running around looking for some bigger weapons and ammo to kill the three Cybers in the map. Then I heard the Spiderboss die.

A good amount of Rockets. Unfortunately, most of the time monsters were too close to use them. Once I found the Plasma Gun and ammo, things got better.

The two Imps on the ledge around the corner in sector 84 are really easy to miss. I only found them near the end when I was looking for more ammo.

There is an unknown object, type 32000, in sector 99, dead center in the map. A camera spot?

For completists, the five Lost Souls moving the lifts should somehow be killed before you exit.

That's it. Tough. Dense. A good map.

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@tourniquet
Gorgeous map with great ideas, but I wasn't into the gameplay on UV. Played too many maps at this point where I have to run across half -- or more -- of a map looking for weapons/ammo to fight heavy meat. I just felt oppressed and it's not fun for me. I was going to give it a whirl on HMP, but -- oops! -- no difficulty settings.

Once you have the settings in, I'll try again. This might be a map I need to start on HNTR to learn where things are at.

But once again, killer idea!

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EffinghamHuffnagel said:

The non-damaging nukage was a complete surprise. I had been trying to avoid it.

Is intended, i think the maps is allready hazardous enough and with damaging floor it would become a nuisance


For completists, the five Lost Souls moving the lifts should somehow be killed before you exit.

Agreed and allready fixed, the outside area is a secret now.

SteveD said:

Played too many maps at this point where I have to run across half -- or more -- of a map looking for weapons/ammo to fight heavy meat. I just felt oppressed and it's not fun for me.

I see your point Steve, the "runnin from monsters" is in fact a part of the whole 'Unruly' gimmick but i guess i could swap a few items and make the PG accessible earlier. I might even add a early obtainable BFG at lower skills.
And don't worry i'll add skill settings in the next update.


Thanks for the feedback to both of you.

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tourniquet said:

Thanks for the feedback to both of you.


I gotta tell you one more thing, is that I'm sick as a motherfucker right now and I'm playing like such a total jagoff, I'm not sure I could get through Toxin Refinery in one piece, much less your map that would require me to be at the top of my game. ATM, I'm thinking I really shouldn't have said anything except, "Killer idea, dude!" ;D

It's also the case that GLBoom is driving me nuts. Slipping into windowed mode, never starting at 100% speed -- is it because of Win 8.1 or because I launch it with ZDL? Anyway, except for testing my own maps so I can find issues before my testers do, I'm going back to GZDoom. Time to end the torture. ;D

I look forward to trying your map again when I'm not a total doofus.

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Howdy, E4M4-v2

- skill settings implemented
- amount of Cybs adjusted according to the skill level [UV: 3 | HMP: 2 | HNTR: 1), SM: UV only
- on HMP and HNTR are now 2 BFG's available, the regular + a secret one
- PG and RL location swapped
- 2 Soulspheres on every skill level (varied locations)

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tourniquet said:

Howdy, E4M4-v2

- skill settings implemented
- amount of Cybs adjusted according to the skill level [UV: 3 | HMP: 2 | HNTR: 1), SM: UV only
- on HMP and HNTR are now 2 BFG's available, the regular + a secret one
- PG and RL location swapped
- 2 Soulspheres on every skill level (varied locations)


Yeah this was pretty insane, loved it and a nice change up in thematics too compared to the usual E4 stuff. Great job, in fact I can't offer any suggestions really to this.

E4M5 is going to be challenging to hold up to this.

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Cheers CB, so i guess i'm done with this for the moment.

cannonball said:

E4M5 is going to be challenging to hold up to this.


Well you're a warrant for difficulty so it shouldn't be much of a problem :).

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Glad to have you aboard, GRB!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/jy7520r7pfhn4f8/UDINO42w.wad

Another tweaked version of my map. The yellow key battle is a trifle more civilized now, but the main thing is that I changed the Plasma Gun area to take advantage of limiit-removing and UDINO liquids. You will need the udino liquids wad for the map.

I made the blood non-toxic but added a lava source that mixes the lava with blood. The lava packs a wallop! ;) I also made it easier to see the plasma gun from a distance.

Edit: Yes, the lava emits light as well as heat. This might cause some concern. ;)

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I would expect nothing less. Save a spot for my additions to your pelt collection. ;)

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I like the shots, GRB, except for the SKIN upper texture in the first picture, because it structurally doesn't make sense.

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SteveD said:

Glad to have you aboard, GRB!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/jy7520r7pfhn4f8/UDINO42w.wad

Another tweaked version of my map.


Gave it another spin of course i'm allready spoilered due to playing all previous versions.

The YK trap was imo the mother of all dickishness in previous versions and i still don't like the Cyb that pops up right behind you but the option to telefrag him quickly sure is satisfying. I guess this room somehow comes very close the resemble 'Perfect Hatred' ;). Still i think 2 Cybs would be enough.

Another thing i would recommend is, making the secret exit more secret, maybe also a different location and perhaps a sequence of a few hidden switches (scattered throughout the map) to reveal it.

Other than that, great map, especially the hectic start with all the snipers and roaming Caco's, i really like that part a lot.

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SteveD said:


Here's a FDA of your map:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/xq1vwbup4kokbl6/udino42-mouldy.lmp

Recorded on skill 3 (dunno if you implemented skill levels?). It contains several deaths (all in the first few minutes) and a bit of fannying about in the middle when i couldn't see where to go next (my fault I think). I made it in the end, despite getting a rocket in the face. Cool map though, nice and concise. Takes a bit of learning, that berserk trap in particular is not very nice.

I'm not sure how well it fits the name of the map, I mean besides the monsters obviously hating you. I think with these abstract episode 4 names the theme of the map has to be quite unique to make it not seem like just another doom map. I don't have any ideas myself though, other than making something very pure and minimalist to represent perfection, or perhaps having a map where the monsters can see you but cant get at you, so you are constantly listening to their angry sounds.

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cannonball said:

Here is a first draft of "They will repent"
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kmf4cbfkfr33rkw/E4M5cb.wad


Ha, absolutely fantastic and in terms of repentance this map totally makes sense, very cool idea. FDA, i recommend fast forward since i died aroud 15-20 times until i figured out what to do. But yeah i love the idea, found nothing worth mentioning or somehow bothersome, perhaps you should reduce the enemy density in lower skill levels but for UV this is imo perfect. Hope i didn't spoiler too much for all those who want to try the map too. Great job.

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Not a bad idea, Cannonball. My one suggestion would be to make the colors of the doors more obvious - i.e., make the color strips easier to see, and a lot brighter, not just a small, shadowed block above the door. There's already so much going on in the map that not realizing a door is key-locked until you ran all the way up to feels a bit unfortunate, to me. Then again, it's a map that probably has a lot of trial-and-error anyways...

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General Rainbow Bacon said:

scifista: how often does the E2 corruption really make sense anyway? :P

The problem is that the ceiling block looks artificial / metallic, while covered by organic textures. If it was flesh growing over it (like in your other screenshots), the shape would change to be more organic-like in detail. As it looks, it feels slightly more like a random unprofessional texturing rather that a hellish corruption.

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