Map itself is good, we can maybe find a slot for it. I do not really like so much billboard. We were semi-planning on removing most of them.


Maybe it is because I have not played in a long time but so many FreeDM maps have large power ups and armor. Do people really like to play on maps like that? Any sphere and large armors were extremely rare in all the best DM maps I have played. A 50-25 duel could easily be 50-1 by adding a megasphere. In my time, I used to totally wreck shareware servers simply because they had spheres and large armors. My entire gameplay strategy was to run back and forth between powerups, a 30/1 k/d was common.

Powerups and armors in a map cannot be ignored even if player does not need them. I can easily ignore a BFG and just keep up the fight. But if there are powerups, I am forced to take them only so another player cannot. The powerup becomes the focus of the map, the area of gameplay to fight over.

Just recently I played a duel on a decently sized map with no plasma, bfg, armors or powerups. My main gameplay focused on collecting the 4 medikits. I basically had 100 health most of the time. I was picking up the medikits, so I knew the order in which they spawned and the timing. The other guy was a good player, only did not item hog. Even 4 medikits can alter gameplay enough to give the item hogger a serious advantage. This may actually be a good thing, if that was the intended gameplay.

Many old maps do not have these problems with item placement theory. The simple trick is that they do not have any items or were played in OS gamemode so items did not respawn. The gameplay focused on player positioning, weapon usage, strategy and pure skill.

Another issue is secrets. There are fun secrets with lightgoogles, chainsaw or maybe a cell pack. But gameplay critical items should never be hard to find or extremely hard to acquire. There was one map I played where halfway through I heard a BFG, only the mapper knew how to find it. I even edited the map and did not notice map had a BFG. Later dwango5 maps had tons of hidden walls, stockpiles of power ups...the only way to be competitive on those maps was to spectate the guy with a 25-0 score to see how the hell he did that.

I do not want FreeDM to be so full of secrets and intricate ways to obtain items that a casual player will never have a chance to grab a BFG, or other items.

This rant is not directed at your map, but all of FreeDM in general.

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the map needs more conversative weapon placement, weapon pickups become a dangerous hazard in fast-paced duels as the weapon switch time lasts plently long enough to leave you incredibly defenseless.

Also, the invisibility sphere is a big no-no, just like the invulnerability sphere.

However, the layout seems really nice, just the item placement needs work.

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yeah i just checked again and i seemed to remember there being more weapons But: you don't need an SG on a spawn that is right next to another weapon. you'll end up spending a lot of time automatically weapon switching, all the player wants is Any weapon at that point. not having an SG when you spawn doesn't put you at a disadvantage really, especially when you can travel a very short distance to find one.

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Good rant, Cato. I've made the mistake of having mega powerups that are also secrets, when if a map is going to be a "king of the items" type thing, every player should still have a fair chance at doing so.

I find maps with no powerups/no BFG to be dull, unless there's something really special about them, but the point about secrets in particular is one I'll keep in mind.

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Doomkid said:

"king of the items"


It is a careful balance. I do not mind BFG usually. BFG in most maps can be easily dodged, the BFG is always there to pickup, requires no gameplay based on timing items. BFG is fine.

The target "player base" is also very important in determining item choice. A map does not need to specifically be casual or competition based. A competition quality map can easily be used casually, but not the other way around. Dwango5 MAP09 and MAP14 are purely casual. Many false walls and elaborate secrets should never need to be taken into account during a match. False walls and elaborate secrets create distractions in a competitive match. But if you are mapping for casual games, items are very cool. No one will like the map for serious competition but it can be great fun. Lots of fun was the point anyway.

So should casual maps have intricate and hard to find secrets? Players may not be aware of false walls, random switch textures, or how prevalent secrets can be. May not know how to SR-50 through a slime pit. Many players find secrets by watching someone else activate/use them. A false wall is instant and silent cover; while a secret door will open, stay open, then close all while making sound. Micro walkways/pillars to run across or SR-50 only jumps will just aggravate a casual/newer player. Shareware did this almost flawlessly. Every massive powerup was rather easy to acquire and massively spread apart so even lower skilled players had a chance of grabbing one.

The larger powerups, items and secrets can be used but need to be carefully placed. FreeDM MAP09 had the BFG behind a maze of exact tricks and multilevel secrets. Even in singleplayer mode, it is near impossible for someone to find while specifically looking for how to get it. When people learn the map, the gameplay starts to shift towards the secrets. Then players not familiar with the map secrets will be missing out on substantial items for gameplay. I refuse to open a map editor to examine a map to figure out how to grab an item, it should not be required of players.


I want FreeDM to be mostly competition quality. So good players will actually want to seriously play on it, as well as having fun gameplay for new players. Maybe sort the casual maps toward the back, or front. Some maps were originally competition based and should be tweaked back to that level.

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i like but i dislike of the map in same time but lets feedback:

The layout is perfect the map ever being a medium size i fell it big thats a good point!

But same textures all time i fell the area little dead for some reason.

Metal steps on wood this look a prety strange for me

Balance of the guns look nice i dont find so much umbalance in this map

The ammo and hp is very well placed on map but i fell out of rockets and 2 certain area of this map devoid of ammo.

A Place of map has 2 weapons togeter try remove one or move a little...

This map is perfect for freedm regardless of that issues.

-> Map is average

Layout - 8/10
Balance - 9/10
Textures - 4/10
Ammo/HP - 8/10

TOTAL - 7,25/10

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Captain Toenail said:

Edit: Here's a new version with toned-down items and the billboard removed. http://www.mediafire.com/download/51976bpuu5aa4gc/CT_BrickingIt_V2.wad


Both your maps have medusa bug, or something else that slows down game to a crawl in chocolate-doom. I didn't get very far from the start, you should be able to reproduce it easily and find bug.

Btw (this is not directed at your map), SR-50 is very difficult for keyboard-only players. I'd advise to not use such jumps in any IWAD that you want playable by everyone.

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your map intant crash vannila redenter (that show the value of visplanes and stuuf) but dont crash original choco doom but hs lot of places that can make it get vispanes ouverflow and linedefs ouvrerflow too

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Protox said:

your map intant crash vannila redenter (that show the value of visplanes and stuuf) but dont crash original choco doom but hs lot of places that can make it get vispanes ouverflow and linedefs ouvrerflow too


So what I get from this is that the map shits itself in vanilla.

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