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hardcore_gamer

Classic Doom monsters Vs the Doom 3 ones

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Since this thread is about both the original Doom and Doom 3 I felt it was ok to put this here instead of the Doom 3 forum.

Anyway, when you compare the monsters from the original Doom to the ones from Doom 3, which version do you like more? For me it's like this:

Zombies: I like the original ones better because I think they look cooler and more iconic with their green hair and animal like death screams. The Doom 2 chaingunner is much cooler.

Imp: I like the original one more also for the same reason as the zombie, it looks more iconic. The Doom 3 imp was pretty much just a generic grey monster.

Pinky: I like the Doom 3 version more actually. I always felt the pinky from the original looked silly, while the Doom 3 version looks more scary.

Cacodemon: The original Doom version is better because it's more colorful.

Revenant: Look pretty much the same in both versions to be honest.

Hell knight: The Doom 3 version by far. This is the only monster in Doom 3 that actually made me feel real fear while playing. It's this huge horrible thing that just slowly marches towards you with the intent of crushing you. What made it even more scary is that it doesn't appear that often, which means that when they DO appear it's all the more scary. The classic version just looks like a goat...

Arc-vile: They look pretty much the same honestly.

Cyber-demon: The Doom 3 version looks cooler I think, though they are similar.

Which versions do you like more?

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Yeah, in a lot of cases, I prefer the original designs too. Not sure about hell knights, though - they're equally sex- er, I mean badass-looking in both Doom 2 and Doom 3.

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They're hardly comparable. Come on, it's low-res cartoony sprites versus medium-res 3D polygons textured with 100 shades of grey for "realism".

Both in regards of design and behaviour, I mostly prefer the classic monsters. Pinky demon might be better in D3, because he looks frightening and also he attacks as soon as he reaches the player, therefore he could have been an efficient enemy if he didn't just stand and roar every now and then. D3 Hellknight's appearance is cool, too. And Lost Soul in D3 too - I like its appearance and its fluid flight, while the classic one "just slowly moves through the air".

I wish classic Doom had a machinegun zombie, a teleporting Wraith, a wall-climbing Maggot and some fast-walking melee-only zombies and the Tentacle Commando as well. I don't miss Trites, their low height would make them bad targets.

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Most of these have been made for classic Doom in ZDoom DECORATE form. Trites aren't too hard to shoot, actually. Wall-climbing is a bit hard to implement so I'm not aware of this ability being replicated, but teleporting wraiths is pretty easy (make them spawn a teleport fog, move a lot of times with A_Wander or A_Chase in 0 tics, then spawn another teleport fog).

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@Gez: I know. As for Trites, any monsters with low height are uncomfortable to fight due to autoaim. Well, depending on the weapon you use: Chaingun is okay, shotgun / SSG not, RL and plasmagun might and might not be optimum choices. I've recently experienced this in Threshold of Pain 2.

Spoiler

Not that I exactly hated those low Trites, but I felt that I prefer standardly high enemies in classic Doom.

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i like both the originals and doom 3 ones, i just wich that doom 3 had included the arachnos and mastermind, the only design i didnt like was the doom 3 lost soul (the forgotten soul are whaterever it was called was cool)

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trites are annoying, but much less than the babies of doom. i blew them up with extra firepower because i couldn't stand those abortions.

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Pirx said:

trites are annoying, but much less than the babies of doom. i blew them up with extra firepower because i couldn't stand those abortions.

These "Cherubs" behave like classic Lost Souls, just in Doom 3, plus they only walk the ground, yet with greater mobility. I agree, they're annoying and I always try to kill them with heavy weaponry ASAP.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

This is a stupid question, 3D Models are not comparable with Sprites (3D Models ROCK YEAH =3 ), Personally i prefer 3D Models ..

It's not really, and this talk about design, not overall cleanness.

Mostly, I prefer the originals... they're all not only iconic, but extremely diverse. The Doom 3 ones all had a pretty bland colour scheme and some of them tended to almost blend in with each other.
Metaphorically speaking, of course. :P

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Sooo ... DOOM 3 is fake ?


Joe's not talking about realism at all. It's about the design, as in the look and shape and color and etc. of the character. If somebody took the cacodemon sprite from Doom, and made a super realistic 3D model from it (as has been done before), it would have the same design but look more realistic. High realism != good design...somebody could make a mod of Doom 3 where every enemy was a super detailed impressively rendered high-definition ultra-realistic dog turd and I'd still say it was crappy design. (Literally lol)

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I tend to prefer the design of D3's Demons and Mancubi over their classic counterparts. The Mancs' gross tentacle faces fit better, and D3's demons look great with those mechanical legs. Biomechanical stuff is something of a consistent theme with id Software and I liked the continuation of it here.

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Doom 3 enemies all look like they were all related. I liked the variation in the original games, kinda like the animals and nature we have, all different things mixed in. But some designs in Doom 3 were still pretty cool though, even if they were all grey.

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The classic design with all its color, stereotypical horns, and hoofs together with the environment are a part of the fun in the old doom. The sprites are well made. To me it remains a colorful action arcade game.

Doom 3 its monster design was based around horror and heightened realism compared to the classics. Put those detailed creepy monsters in a space station and you have hell... I am starting to think many people have a weak spot for desolate stations and monsters of certain design and principle. (alien, doom 3, dead space, the thing)

It seems to have been part of ID its remix of ideas, so both games exist on their own grounds even when they look different and have the same name. (Doom vs Doom 3, and quake vs quake 2.)

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Xegethra said:

Doom 3 enemies all look like they were all related. I liked the variation in the original games, kinda like the animals and nature we have, all different things mixed in. But some designs in Doom 3 were still pretty cool though, even if they were all grey.



yeah. that's the thing with some id games (quake, doom3), they have this drab palette which makes everything look similar.

i'm torn on the designs though. both are well done. classic doom sprites have this cartoony style, especially the cacodemon imo. they're more colorful though so they stand out and are easier to tell apart. doom3 models are more alien and ugly, like the cacos and imps with their multiple eyes.

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You know I have no idea what Doom 4 is gonna look like, I haven't checked up on it >_>

If ID were to release the original Doom games done over in full 3d I wouldn't be against it....but the current fan remake in the editing forums is looking pretty neato I might say, keeping as faithful as it can to the original design.

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I prefer the classic cacodemon over the one found in Doom 3, as for the hell knight I think they should have stayed more faithful to the old design which I really liked, he looks almost like a giant imp in doom 3 honestly. I never really cared for imps in either game I found them rather bland, but I do like Doom64's version. Over all though, I think Doom 3 did a good job of updating the monster designs while introducing new and interesting ones.

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Most of the Doom 3 designs are messy, hard to read, and kind of bland. I can't even tell where the cyberdemon's eyes are, though that was true in the classic design too.

There's been whispers (from goatlord) of Doom 4 having Doom 3-esq imps, only slimmer and ghostly-white this time around instead of srsrelisticghreyghreyghrey. Could potentially be pretty creepy.

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Jaxxoon R said:

I can't even tell where the cyberdemon's eyes are

That's probably because it has no eyes.

srsrelisticghreyghreyghrey

It's a well-known fact that pursuing realism instead of artsy-fartsiness is a crime against humanity. But greyness doesn't always mean the former, and there's a lot of the latter in Doom 3.

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It's not exactly the best idea to have hazards be grey when you're running through metallic environments of the same color.

Edit: You mean to tell me that thing has no eyes?

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Jaxxoon R said:

It's not exactly the best idea to have hazards be grey when you're running through metallic environments of the same color.

Would be true for sprites, especially in 320x200.

Doom 3 has complex lighting to bring out the shapes. And, considering its reliance on said lighting, more colors in the skins wouldn't necessarily make things cleaner.

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Most of DOOM 3 Monsters are same from classic DOOM Series, ID Tried as hard as possible to recreate them in 3D and give em better look,however there are few unfinished monsters and other new monsters added ...

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Xegethra said:

Doom 3 enemies all look like they were all related. I liked the variation in the original games, kinda like the animals and nature we have, all different things mixed in. But some designs in Doom 3 were still pretty cool though, even if they were all grey.


I think this sums up my problem with the Doom 3 monster roster. Individually, quite a few of them have interesting designs--particularly the pinky, mancubus, commando, revenant and maggot--but, as stated, they feel too overly similar, both in terms of texture and color variety and general design. I can see how a bunch of completely different looking monsters would have been too jarring, but making them overly consistent is problematic as well. I also feel like id didn't really tap into the possibilities of truly disturbing, menacing enemies.

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This isn't a direct Doom/Doom 3 comparison, but as an aside, I personally preferred the original design of the trite to the final version. I thought it was far creepier when the head was more human-like than with the insect eyes the final version had. With the human head, it had much more of an "uncanny valley" feel to it, though actually in a good way - I mean, it's supposed to be creepy, so the uncanny valley actually worked for it.

Likewise, the babies were something that could've been truly terrifying, but again, giving them insect eyes kinda ruined the uncanny valley effect, so they again just came across as monsters that you had to kill, rather than being true abominations that were unsettling to look at.

Just my take - their final versions fit more with the theme of Doom 3, but then the theme of Doom 3 really kinda toned down the demonic elements and made the monsters seem more like a bug infestation. The new pinky, however, was basically perfect. Yeah, they're not so scary once you get the hang of taking 'em down, but man, those things were much more terrifying than their original Doom counterparts.

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