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Breezeep

Transgender teen commits suicide, cites Christian parents in blog

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I'll be the guy to say it. A lot of teens kill themselves over their parents. Transgender, christian or not. Marilyn Manson had strict religious parents, went to religious school and turned out to be a millionaire trans gender or cross dresser. Most TGs and CDs suffer from depression or imbalances. I remember working a suicide hotline 10 or so years ago. Heard a lot of stories from TGs and CDs. Even girls becoming boys that called. They don't like themselves already, that's why they're making the change. Saying the wrong thing sends them over.

There I go blaming the victim again. The buck stops with the person killing themselves. You have control over that and when you lose control... you won't get to make that choice again.

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Not this shit again.

The kid's parents made a CHOICE to use their supposed religious beliefs to justify their bigotry and by doing so they also made a CHOICE to go against the teaching of their supposed religious beliefs. Religion isn't at fault here, the parents and the CHOICES they made are. People need to stop blaming religion and start blaming people, because people are the root cause of problem, not a fucking book. Of course this means fully accepting ones humanity and accepting that the only thing that separates you from everyone else is the CHOICES you make.

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I'm gonna have to agree with the notion that religious beliefs aren't an excuse. I think few parents who cite religious beliefs in cases like this are thinking, "Really, I just want to be supportive of my child regardless of the choices he or she makes, but I can't defy my religion." More likely they're just asshole parents who use religion as an excuse to be assholes. I just find it hard to believe that if they really cared, they wouldn't say, "Well, our religion teaches us one thing, but my child comes first, so I'm going to support them regardless." In fact, sometimes, when it comes to decent, loving parents, that's exactly the attitude they take - that the importance of supporting their child comes before their religious beliefs, so that even if they are gay, transgendered, or whatever, they don't just simply turn their backs on them.

So I think it's more likely the parents were just horrible to begin with, and only fell back on religion to defend their attitudes, rather than truly caring for their child and having religion get in the way of that. And quite frankly, I think that's inexcusable and monstrous. Putting your own selfish desire to not have to deal with the issue ahead of your own child, just... gah, one more reason I think you should need a license to have children.

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geekmarine said:

I think few parents who cite religious beliefs in cases like this are thinking, "Really, I just want to be supportive of my child regardless of the choices he or she makes, but I can't defy my religion."


That's not what I get from religious conservatives. Often for these people their religion's teachings are sacrosanct and everybody defying these conventions is a 'sinner'. Now enter a religious group that has a thing for intolerance towards minorities - and get a disaster in making.

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A petition has been started to enact Leelah's Law (has a great ring to it), to ban transgender conversion therapy.

https://www.change.org/p/barack-obama-harry-reid-nancy-pelosi-president-of-the-united-states-enact-leelah-s-law-to-ban-transgender-conversion-therapy?recruiter=152584905&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

It's rare I feel very strongly about something political. This is one of those rare cases. Transgender conversion therapy seriously needs to go.

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Hellbent said:

A petition has been started to enact Leelah's Law (has a great ring to it), to ban transgender conversion therapy.

https://www.change.org/p/barack-obama-harry-reid-nancy-pelosi-president-of-the-united-states-enact-leelah-s-law-to-ban-transgender-conversion-therapy?recruiter=152584905&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

It's rare I feel very strongly about something political. This is one of those rare cases. Transgender conversion therapy seriously needs to go.


I know Leelah Aclorn or whatever it was didn't have a nice ring to it. Maybe she was a Futurama fan.

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Graf Zahl said:

That's not what I get from religious conservatives. Often for these people their religion's teachings are sacrosanct and everybody defying these conventions is a 'sinner'. Now enter a religious group that has a thing for intolerance towards minorities - and get a disaster in making.

I just don't know... I have a hard time imagining a decent person putting their religious beliefs ahead of what's right in front of them. Not to defend the beliefs or anything, but I get the impression that these people would act horribly regardless of their beliefs - they'd just justify their horribleness by another means.

It's kind of hard to explain, but I guess what I'm getting at is there must be underlying prejudice there that the religion is fueling, rather than the religion creating the prejudice. Otherwise, they would feel hesitation to follow that aspect of the religion, or change religions entirely - so what I'm really getting at is that I don't think these were otherwise decent people who got turned around by their religious beliefs.

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geekmarine said:

I just don't know... I have a hard time imagining a decent person putting their religious beliefs ahead of what's right in front of them. Not to defend the beliefs or anything, but I get the impression that these people would act horribly regardless of their beliefs - they'd just justify their horribleness by another means.



Even honest people can get so indoctrinated by religious teachings that they completely forget about the basics of humanity if something contradicts those teachings. If that's the case they think it's 'wrong' and will act accordingly - and yes - that often involves unbelievable and horrible actions.

You can see that everywhere in the world where basic rights are trampled by religious beliefs. Once people truly believe there is no way to make them un-believe. And that's necessary if they have to accept something that's not covered by their religion of choice. And considering that most religious 'knowledge' is ancient and to a large degree completely obsolete in today's society, the disparity between fact and belief can get quite large.

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geekmarine said:

I just don't know... I have a hard time imagining a decent person putting their religious beliefs ahead of what's right in front of them. Not to defend the beliefs or anything, but I get the impression that these people would act horribly regardless of their beliefs - they'd just justify their horribleness by another means.

It's kind of hard to explain, but I guess what I'm getting at is there must be underlying prejudice there that the religion is fueling, rather than the religion creating the prejudice. Otherwise, they would feel hesitation to follow that aspect of the religion, or change religions entirely - so what I'm really getting at is that I don't think these were otherwise decent people who got turned around by their religious beliefs.




People are indoctrinated, especially at a young age. It becomes a security blanket and cause to fallow. Most of all no one likes to be proven wrong. It all adds up to a person who believes they are right, justified in their actions and who has a huge pair of blinders on.

Same can be said about politics.

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The funny thing about Christianity is that if Christ came back, Christian conservatives would see him a degenerate hippie leading a ragtag gang of misfits and social rejects -- petty criminals, junkies, hobos, prostitutes -- and they would call the police to get rid of this filthy activist.

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Gez said:

The funny thing about Christianity is that if Christ came back, Christian conservatives would see him a degenerate hippie leading a ragtag gang of misfits and social rejects -- petty criminals, junkies, hobos, prostitutes -- and they would call the police to get rid of this filthy activist.


King of the losers. Well now we'd call him the Ring Leader at a circus.

You're judged by your club for who you don't let in. Like Steam.

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I think everyone here looks awful. The parents for being shitheads and not loving their kid enough, and the kid for the way she committed suicide. That poor truck driver must be scarred for life.

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Tragic. It's sickening and saddening that this still happens even in the modern world.

Coopersville said:

That poor, poor whatsit.

A human being is never an "it".

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esselfortium said:

A human being is never an "it".


I was always intrigued as to why in English animals are referred to like that.

On topic, even though it's obvious christianity played an important role here, I think it wouldn't be any different if it was judaism or islamfor example. And it's unlikely any "true crhistian" will blame his religion, they'll always find another target, from "those were bad parents, not christian parents" to "this is why we need more christian values in school/society".

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Zed said:

"this is why we need more christian values in school/society".



Funny thing is, if those pea-brains actually READ the bible once, it'd be clear that their 'christian values' have absolutely nothing in common with what Jesus Christ stood for.

So, real 'christian values' would have tought these parents to support their child, not to cause this much damage.

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Zed said:

"those were bad parents, not christian parents"

Well, can you honestly say this would be a wrong statement? I'd think parents who drive their kids to suicide is a pretty big mark in the "bad parents" column...

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Graf Zahl said:

So, real 'christian values' would have tought these parents to support their child, not to cause this much damage.


It's been a while since I read the Bible, but I think Jesus never actually condemned homosexuality. Is that what you talking about? That comes from Leviticus if I'm not mistaken, and that's basically what crhistians are teached about in church when talking about homosexuality, so "christian values" (coming from Jesus himself) may be irrelevant here, right?

Gez said:

Well, can you honestly say this would be a wrong statement? I'd think parents who drive their kids to suicide is a pretty big mark in the "bad parents" column...


Right, I sometimes have some trouble chosing my words.

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Zed said:

It's been a while since I read the Bible, but I think Jesus never actually condemned homosexuality. Is that what you talking about? That comes from Leviticus if I'm not mistaken, and that's basically what crhistians are teached about in church when talking about homosexuality, so "christian values" (coming from Jesus himself) may be irrelevant here, right?


One can extrapolate from his actions - and the only conclusion would be that Jesus would not only not have condemned homosexuality (or any other fringe group of modern society), he would have treated them as his equals, just like he did with other disadvantaged groups of his time period.

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That's actually part of why I'm inclined to blame bad parenting over religious views corrupting otherwise decent people in this case. Given that Jesus had a message of accepting and embracing social outcasts, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could truly think they were following Christianity in rejecting their child like this. It seems far more likely they did what they did because it fit in with their own selfish needs, and conveniently justified it with religion, rather than the religious views being something they were following through on even though they wished they didn't have to reject their child.

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geekmarine said:

That's actually part of why I'm inclined to blame bad parenting over religious views corrupting otherwise decent people in this case. Given that Jesus had a message of accepting and embracing social outcasts, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could truly think they were following Christianity in rejecting their child like this.


I suggest you do a little research on some ultra-conservative evangelical churches in the US, then.

These people call themselves Christians but it's quite obvious that they have absolutely no understanding of what the Bible says.

It's often these precise circles where such horror stories emerge.

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Committing suicide is one thing, but involving a truck driver in your self pity is where I lost sympathy, now he's going to have to live the rest of his life with... this... also, I think the parents have suffered enough grief without the world trying to have a say on "good parenting" as if our own shit doesn't stink.

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quoted from article:
teen commits suicide by stepping in front of a moving tractor trailer truck.

Suicide by this way is a selfish thing to do. Hopefully that trucker isn't going to be mentally scarred by this action.

Dunno about parenting, but if you can't raise your kid, you're not obviously fit for that. Be it christian, islamic or atheist family. No religion is excuse for bad parenting.

Also, your English with him, her, it... How divisive.

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As somebody who has transgender and non-straight friends, this is absolutely disgusting. One should NEVER treat their child should they be gay, lesbian, straight or transgender like this. Love them and let them live their lives the way they choose and regardless of faith.

I'll favor living the way you want to over tradition anyday.

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