NOVA II - Ver. 1.2 on /idgames (now with no missing keycards!)

[Dave The Daring]

Thanks tourniquet. I'll rename the textures tonight and hopefully will have the finished map uploaded by tomorrow.. Yay!

[NuclearPotato]

mouldy said:

Here's a quick FDA
http://www.mediafire.com/download/el0qszzdvuxrnms/bloodredsky-mouldy.lmp

I'm not sure I got very far, I found myself running through most of it without killing anything while searching for health and ammo. Not sure how you intend it to be played, but it seems like everywhere you go there is more opposition than resources to deal with it. Especially seeing that small army of lost souls I just thought stuff that and legged it. I'm assuming there is enough ammo and health to kill everything as long as you know where to find it, but I didn't find it so had to give up.

Design-wise it has some lighting and architectural flourishes which are nice, although from the little I saw of the map it seemed to be a bit room-corridor-room, but it has some nice non-linearity in the layout. The long steep stairs are a bit annoying, and a lot of the rooms are so tall that it accentuates the fact that all the enemies are on the ground with the player. To make rooms more interesting and fun to play in try adding more architectural variation that the players and enemies can use: balconies, pillars, windows etc.

So I started working on my map again after giving myself a few days to think about your feedback, and I'm messing with the architecture like you suggested along with a couple of other things (note to self: pillars should not be holding up the sky :P), but I realized I did something very bone-headed with UV, which your FDA made very clear. I actually took away ammo while adding monsters for UV to try and add challenge to the map, so there's a very good chance that you couldn't kill everything on the map without seeing how well your CQC was, so to speak. It doesn't help that I balance for HMP by default, since that's the difficulty level I play on as a general rule.

As far as my approach to playing the map, I had these principles in mind when designing:

-Running away should be just as viable as shooting everything.
-You need to explore to find the best items; most of the good stuff is locked behind doors with different colors relative to the keycard in that section.
-Scaling difficulty; as you progress through one area, monster closets in other areas open up to increase the difficulty of those areas when you go through them. I feel like it was a little half-baked in this alpha though, so I'm keeping an eye out for better ways to use it.

With all that in mind, could you or someone else give it a shot on HMP, to see how balance is on that level?

[Dave The Daring]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/plx316de5pn90i1/nova_dav_5x.zip

Fifth and final version of 'The Purification Plant'. All CC4 textures now have the prefix 'DAV'. Time to move on to something else methinks..

[mouldy]

NuclearPotato said:

As far as my approach to playing the map, I had these principles in mind when designing:

-Running away should be just as viable as shooting everything.
-You need to explore to find the best items; most of the good stuff is locked behind doors with different colors relative to the keycard in that section.
-Scaling difficulty; as you progress through one area, monster closets in other areas open up to increase the difficulty of those areas when you go through them. I feel like it was a little half-baked in this alpha though, so I'm keeping an eye out for better ways to use it.

With all that in mind, could you or someone else give it a shot on HMP, to see how balance is on that level?

I had a quick go on HMP, and while it is a lot better (probably closer to what I would say UV should be) it still feels really stringent on the ammo and health. I ran out of both, and the skinny awkward corridors make it impossible to escape if you have left a load of monsters behind you. I would add more health and ammo around the place, doesn't have to be lots, just a few stimpacks and shotgun shells dotted around to keep the player going. Also bear in mind how differently this might play for continuous players.

[dobu gabu maru]

spaztacus said:

I'm interested in this if there is still space. Seems like there is.

I'll address this in a few days, but we're pretty tight on space. I don't want to officially deny people from the project, as there's still time to rearrange maps or swap them out for others, so I think it'd be alright if you start making something for the project. If you could link to some of your previous material that'd be great, just so I can know what your type of mapping.

Alright, we're getting close to the homestretch, but there's a couple things left to do. Some of them, like the textfile, skies and CWILVs can wait until we have a full 32-map set, but as of now I think we should address MAP32. I was hoping more people would be vocal about stepping forward to support it, but as of now I think it's best just to pick 5 people I think would mesh well on the project. My initial picks would be:

- Jaxxoon R
- Pinchy
- AD79
- Dave the Daring
- NoisyVelvet

I wanted to pick tourniquet in the beginning but I think it would be better if he designed the map hub and final battle, as I think it would be more interesting in how these five would handle "difficult endgame" encounters. Note that any of you can decline this, and your slot will go to another mapper.

If you folks need a primer on what you should be aiming for, it should be a ~10 minute section that's balanced around the player having all the weapons (as they will be provided in the hub), and should be relatively difficult. MAP30 of the first NOVA is a good reference guide, though clearly your individual sections can be whatever you want them to be (linear, explorative, slaughter, etc). As to avoid tagging overlap, I'll be using a similar number tag system from the first NOVA, which is Jaxxoon R (tags 1-40), Pinchy (tags 41-80), AD79 (tags 81-120), Dave (tags 121-160) NoisyVelvet (tags 161-200), and tourniquet (tags 201 and beyond). If any of you withdraw from the project, whoever takes your place will receive your allotted tags. Keep in mind that you will be sharing a map with a whole other host of authors, so keeping the space and linedefs somewhat low is ideal (the original Megiddo ran into this problem early on).

[tourniquet]

kk sounds good, i haven't started working on a hub yet since you didn't reply at the time i offered to create one, but sure i'm on it.

[Dave The Daring]

I'd be happy to contribute something. I'll try and keep it short and sweet.

[Pinchy]

So a hub map with 5 pieces, with mine being the second part of five.

I have one idea I can expand on, should be OK.

Is it 5 parts, or 4 parts and the hub being made entirely by one person? You could have the hub be an interesting/complex encounter too rather than a tricks and traps style entryway.

[dobu gabu maru]

Pinchy said:

Is it 5 parts, or 4 parts and the hub being made entirely by one person?

5 seperate parts that end in a teleporter, with the hub being made by tourniquet. It's up to him to decide how he wants to start/end the map; putting enemies in it could be interesting, but the main idea is to let the player determine the order they want to explore the maps in. Good to hear so many of you are onboard!

[AD_79]

I'm up for it.

[Jaxxoon R]

So since this is MAP32, can I go as balls-out crazy as I can with my section, respecting limit-removing (Boom?) limitations of course?

[Dave The Daring]

Jaxxoon R said:

So since this is MAP32, can I go as balls-out crazy as I can with my section, respecting limit-removing (Boom?) limitations of course?

Nobody wants to see your balls Jaxxoon.

[dobu gabu maru]

Jaxxoon R said:

So since this is MAP32, can I go as balls-out crazy as I can with my section, respecting limit-removing (Boom?) limitations of course?

Well keep in mind that five other people are sharing the map space and it can get pretty hairy if everyone else wants to go nuts on the detail. If you're talking about making it difficult, you can go all out, but otherwise try and keep it within 5000 wide/tall box. Feel free to do any theme you want tho.

[AD_79]

dobu gabu maru said:

keep it within 5000 wide/tall box. Feel free to do any theme you want tho.

heh, this should be easy for me seeing as every map I've made can fit inside this space. As for theme, I need to decide that.

[mrthejoshmon]

My E3 map, that is a no chance.

0 inspiration for it and it could possibly never be finished in time.

So yeah, drop it out.

[SleepyVelvet]

dobu gabu maru said:

~10 minute section that's balanced around the player having all the weapons (as they will be provided in the hub), and should be relatively difficult.

i might conjure up something small and difficult that lasts a couple minutes.

[Jaxxoon R]

Dave The Daring said:

Nobody wants to see your balls Jaxxoon.

I'm pretty sure this is a joke. It has to be. But there's always the chance you're from the UK or something and don't understand 'Murican slang.

Oh well, anyways, I didn't mean detail so much as being extremely different. It's good you told me that though, I'll keep it in mind.

[Dave The Daring]

Jaxxoon R said:

I'm pretty sure this is a joke. It has to be. But there's always the chance you're from the UK or something and don't understand 'Murican slang.

Of course it's a joke, silly. And yes, I am from the UK but I'm familiar with most 'Murican slang..

But if you do ever get your balls out in public, make sure to give them a good polish first. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

[Breezeep]

Am I allowed to make another map for a certain slot?

[dobu gabu maru]

^ As mrthejoshmon is unfortunately low on inspiration, I think another one of your maps could fit well in his place. Remember that we're aiming for shorter E3 style maps.

[Obsidian]

Long time no see, eh? On a side note, I'm happy to report that I've finally crafted a final boss for use in the last level! I've made a test level for it here if anyone's interested.

The Hierophant.



-In the Hierophant's first stage he flies around and throws a flurry of 3 homing missiles at the player.

-After taking a certain amount of damage the Hierophant teleports away and reinforcements can teleport in.

-In the Hierophant's final stage he gains a conterattack move: whenever he flinches he'll steadily fire a stream of plasma until the target goes out of sight. Killing him ends the level.

I set the Hierophant's health to 600 for the first stage and 1200 for the second, which will more than likely change: what it changes to is up to Dobu. Let me know what you guys think.

[Dave The Daring]

Oh yeah.. Me likey!

[dobu gabu maru]

Obsidian said:

Let me know what you guys think.

Wow, that's actually pretty cool. I especially like the teleport away gimmick since it'll let the player deal with the boss in separate areas. I gave it a spin and his health will definitely need to increase by some amount, as presumably the player will have access to the BFG (I'm thinking something closer to mastermind/cyberdemon health for the stages respectively). I like that he's not too overpowered so we could have the player engage with other monsters without having them feel like they need to kill the boss ASAP.

[tourniquet]

Obsidian said:

The Hierophant.

Great work, the teleport gimmick is really cool.

[Suitepee]

Oh good, no Icon of Sin in the last level. This makes me happy that NOVA 2 will have a custom boss fight instead, which is what all Doom wads should do from now on in my opinion.

Can't wait to play NOVA 2!

[scifista42]

Health 600 / 1200? What about 9000 / 9000? Rockets and BFG will probably hurt him fully. I've actually tried it (modified your DEHACKED), and it worked rather well when I fought him with IDKFA. :P

The continuous plasma stream kinda spoils him, though. What if he never loses line of sight? I think that 1-time burst of mancubi shots would be better. Also, the boss could have been slightly more aggressive, IMO (Chase steps with shorter duration) - definitely in his latter form, at least. Anyway, nice!

[Obsidian]

I'm planning on having some cover when you fight this boss, so always being in his LOS won't be a problem. Also I allllllwaaaaaays do the thing with the Mancubus fireballs. :P 4000/8000 would probably work quite well,but again that's Dobu's decision. I might up the speed a little as well so he's a bit more vicious.

[scifista42]

Well, it only took 10 imprecise BFG shots and minimum effort when fighting his first form alone with health 9000. You can suppose that many players will play continuously and therefore have lots of ammo. ;)

[mouldy]

I'm going to have a go at making map30, so I'll have a good old play about with The Hierophant and see if I can create an interesting set-up for him.

[Obsidian]

scifista42 said:

Well, it only took 10 imprecise BFG shots and minimum effort when fighting his first form alone with health 9000. You can suppose that many players will play continuously and therefore have lots of ammo. ;)

Remember, there's a whole level beforehand and this boss is gonna have some goons doing the dirty work for him. I'll hold off on the editing until MAP30 itself is underway.