NOVA II - Ver. 1.2 on /idgames (now with no missing keycards!)

[Breezeep]

Nice work with the custom monster, Obsidian! how did you do that?

[scifista42]

He used DEHACKED an a few tricks. The 2 boss's forms are actually 2 separate monsters. When the first one dies, it displays a teleport fog as its death animation + makes the sound as a death sound, and it calls Commander Keen's special to open 666 tagged doors, which allows the imps to teleport in. Then the 2nd monster is also allowed to teleport in, and when it dies, it calls Romero Head's special to end the level.

[Obsidian]

And it's completely vanilla compatible. :D Just remember, if you use the Pool of Blood or Pool of Brains decoration in your map then I'd recommend replacing them before the compiling starts, otherwise you'll end up with the final boss meandering aimlessly around your map.

[scifista42]

Pool of Blood or Pool of Brains

When I need to replace some Doom object in favor of a DEHACKED replacement, my first choice are the blocking hanging bodies from Doom 1. Nobody ever uses them in their maps, everybody uses their non-blocking variants, therefore I find it okay to replace the blocking ones.

[Super Mighty G]

I settled on the name "Vile Complex" for my map. I also double checked to make sure there were no things that the boss replaces.

[Obsidian]

scifista42 said:

When I need to replace some Doom object in favor of a DEHACKED replacement, my first choice are the blocking hanging bodies from Doom 1. Nobody ever uses them in their maps, everybody uses their non-blocking variants, therefore I find it okay to replace the blocking ones.

Point taken, although hardly anyone seriously uses the Blood or Brains either. :P

[scifista42]

Obsidian said:

Point taken, although hardly anyone seriously uses the Blood or Brains either. :P

I know that you're a gameplay oriented mapper yourself, but some mappers like to go wild with gore decorations, don't underestimate it. ;)

[AD_79]

scifista42 said:

He used DEHACKED an a few tricks. The 2 boss's forms are actually 2 separate monsters. When the first one dies, it displays a teleport fog as its death animation + makes the sound as a death sound, and it calls Commander Keen's special to open 666 tagged doors, which allows the imps to teleport in. Then the 2nd monster is also allowed to teleport in, and when it dies, it calls Romero Head's special to end the level.

Heh, that's actually really clever.

[tourniquet]

scifista42 said:

some mappers like to go wild with gore decorations, don't underestimate it. ;)

heh i'm actually one of those, i don't want the boss in my map, hence another update NOVA2_TNq_v3

[dobu gabu maru]

Obsidian said:

Pool of Blood or Pool of Brains decoration in your map then I'd recommend replacing them before the compiling starts

Uh is there any way you could make them the Doom 1 blocking bodies? People may not use blood & brains too often but I think it's still more present than the Doom 1 blocking stuff (at least in my maps)

[mrthejoshmon]

I use the shit out of the gore sprites so if you replace the brains then there will be some issues with my map.

[Dave The Daring]

And now I'm relieved I chose to make a totally goreless techbase.

[Breezeep]

Obsidian, I'm trying to make a dehacked monster of my own. How do you use the custom sprites in Whacked4?

[scifista42]

Breezeep said:

How do you use the custom sprites in Whacked4?

You need to replace a stock sprite name. In the Strings tab, you can change various text strings, including sprite names. In the States tab, they will still appear as the old names (at least in my Whacked 2), but they'll display as the new ones in the game - so you need to remember which sprite names did you replace by which new ones.

EDIT: In non-vanilla wads, it is easier to just rename the sprites inside the wad to match the stock sprite names, then you don't need any DEHACKED sprite renaming. But vanilla and Chocolate Doom don't support custom sprites without hacky workarounds, so that you need this trick if you want easy compatibility.

[Obsidian]

dobu gabu maru said:

Uh is there any way you could make them the Doom 1 blocking bodies? People may not use blood & brains too often but I think it's still more present than the Doom 1 blocking stuff (at least in my maps)

I can do that: I'll do all the revisions once mouldy's made most of MAP30 so I can account for as much as possible.

Also, random idea: do you think it'd be a good idea to have just the first stage of the Hierophant as a surprise boss for MAP32? Just as a taster for MAP30. :)

[tourniquet]

Hm not sure about that yet, i've allready sort of a concept for the final fight. The KeenDeath special on the other hand introduces some interesting options, think i'll try a few things once i'm done with the map.

[Memfis]

Obsidian said:

although hardly anyone seriously uses the Blood or Brains either. :P

I often put lots of various blood sprites and corpses everywhere in an attempt to hide the boringness of my areas lol. Quick and lazy "detail".

[NuclearPotato]

Into a Blood Red Sky, Alpha 2:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1bX8V5Yr798NjhNVmhRcVZZSHM/view?usp=sharing

Messed with the height in a lot of areas, mostly on the blue keycard area, widened as many corridors as I could, threw in more balconies and ledges, and stuffed in a lot more health and ammo. Layout and lighting are near final, if there's no objections; textures are about 80% complete at this point. Still trying to get a good monster balance.

[7hm]

Another update to my map. Might as well name it. "Another Horse, Fiery Red"


It's in the map 7 slot. I took advantage of that (though perhaps not a worthwhile use - I was mainly just trying to see how I could add to the map).

Weapon and health and monster balance is pretty raw.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=25652551299376413160

[tourniquet]

7hm said:

Another update to my map. Might as well name it. "Another Horse, Fiery Red" It's in the map 7 slot.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=25652551299376413160

Theme-wise this map looks more like a E3 candidate to me it also doesn't use any of the Map7 special tags but perhaps this was intended.

[baja blast rd.]

U.O.D. said:

I settled on the name "Vile Complex" for my map. I also double checked to make sure there were no things that the boss replaces.

I like this name.

[Super Mighty G]

7hm said:

Another update to my map. Might as well name it. "Another Horse, Fiery Red"


It's in the map 7 slot. I took advantage of that (though perhaps not a worthwhile use - I was mainly just trying to see how I could add to the map).

Weapon and health and monster balance is pretty raw.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=25652551299376413160

Are we offering critique? I had two comments.

-The one time Rocket Launcher secret seems unnecessary as does the Super Shotgun lift since you get both shortly after the start anyway. Maybe replace the first Super with a normal Shotgun, replace the secret Rocket launcher with something else and make both of them repeatable actions instead of one time only.

-I think the stairs in the northwest area aren't working as intended because they become too high when you press the switch. If you lower them all to floor level they should work right.

[7hm]

U.O.D. said:

Are we offering critique? I had two comments.

-The one time Rocket Launcher secret seems unnecessary as does the Super Shotgun lift since you get both shortly after the start anyway. Maybe replace the first Super with a normal Shotgun, replace the secret Rocket launcher with something else and make both of them repeatable actions instead of one time only.

-I think the stairs in the northwest area aren't working as intended because they become too high when you press the switch. If you lower them all to floor level they should work right.

Oops, the floor thing is because I was trying to set the stair sidedefs and I forgot to lower them back down. I'll update the map shortly.

The secret RL is just to give you a slightly easier time with the revs / HK if you want it. I'm not a huge fan of secrets that give you a real leg up. Same for the one-time SSG. I can alter those if need be though.

The map uses tag 666 for the BK access to force you to explore the NE. As I said, it was almost more about just seeing how the tags work. I can change it to a switch to accomplish the same thing.

[dobu gabu maru]

Alright, played both NuclearPotato's map and 7hm's map. Don't have good news for either of you.

NuclearPotato: This is much, much better than the first map you showed us, and honestly should've been the first thing that you submitted. With that said, there's still a host of issues that don't make it fun to play. Enemy placement is scattered and feels random, rooms are so big that it makes projectile-based enemies a joke but hitscanners absurdly deadly, and the rooms just feel... empty. Granted you have better texturing this time around rather than STARTAN everywhere, but the map doesn't feel like a "place" still; a lot of the rooms feel like they're haphazardly connected by stairways or hallways, largely independent of one another. You also did a better job with the lighting and the fact that the map is nonlinear (which seems to be a thing most new mappers avoid), but it doesn't feel particularly balanced or interesting to explore. I think if you keep at it you'll be able to produce something neat eventually, but as it stands both of your maps just don't feel quite good enough. I suggest you look at wads you enjoy and try and figure out what makes other people enjoy them—if you're looking at NOVA II, AD_79 is a suitable author to start at.

7hm: You mention that health and monster balance is pretty raw, so it may have badly affected my opinion, but I don't think this map is that fun to play. Granted it's more fleshed out than your previous submissions, but the map kinda feels like its meandering around, not really sure what it wants to be or do. It's also entirely linear yet has you backtracking constantly to hit switches or pass lines that'll open up more of the level. Some fights are alright, but others (like the chaingunners that pop up when you grab the blue key) are just plain obnoxious. Honestly out of all the "accepted" maps, this one feels the least refined, and as such I'm dubious to keep it. I feel bad about it considering the map has been sitting comfortably in the alpha for months, but I also feel bad denying spaztacus an opportunity while this kind of map gets to stay in. I'll still give you a chance to refine it, but my advice would be to start a new map so as to get a fresh start.

In other news, the new beta will be up in an hour (hold your horses bdl)

[AD_79]

Is it wrong that the first thing I read in that paragraph was my name? :v

Anyways, I'm trying to decide what sort of theme I should use for my portion of MAP32. Any suggestions?

[tourniquet]

dobu gabu maru said:

In other news, the new beta will be up in an hour (hold your horses bdl)

I'm pretty sure bdl will be pleased :p

AD_79 said:

I'm trying to decide what sort of theme I should use for my portion of MAP32. Any suggestions?

Check out Map30 of NOVA the birth, this might give you some inspiration. Try to avoid techy themes, try something hellish E3-esque or abstracted.

[dobu gabu maru]

Updated the OP with the current alpha. There's some missing textures that I noticed throughout the alpha (even in Surreptitious Ichor oops), so remember to bring up the command console in Zdoom with ~ to ensure there's nothing missing from your map for next time. I added names/midis to the maps that were missing them and if you want it changed just let me know. Also map order is still kinda loose so there's wiggle room in case anything doesn't fit in playtesting (this is especially true for the reserved maps). And finally, I thought we'd use one of KevinHEZ's midis for MAP32, which is in the alpha, but again if there's other suggestions I'm all ears.

AD_79 said:

I'm trying to decide what sort of theme I should use for my portion of MAP32. Any suggestions?

WOOD, NUKAGE, METAL & ZIMMER BABY

[cannonball]

I can't play the latest alpha through pr-boom, I just get an error message.
"R_InitTextures: 2 errors"

[tourniquet]

^same here

uhh couple of double defined and missing textures, looks like most are textures from my maps

Here's a full list

	

		Spoiler
	

	

		

			Texture "AD_MGRAT" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITEGRN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITERED1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITEYEL1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBEAM1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBEAM2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSUPT2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSUPT4" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSUPT4" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAYW" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQCAUT1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQFENCE" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSUPT1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBEAM1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSUPT2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBEAM2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQNTBR1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQNTBR2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBRCK" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQNXCR" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRN2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT3" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT4" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT5" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQLITE1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQPIP1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQPIP2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQPIP3" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQCAUT2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQBRONZ" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRAT6" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQCMT1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQROCK1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQROCK2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQGRATE" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQMARB2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQSTNBD" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "TNQWODBM" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "DBRAIN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "DBRAIN2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "DBRAIN3" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "DBRAIN4" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SLADPOIS" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SUPPORT2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW1BRN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW1BRNGN" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW1STARG" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW1STON2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW1STONE" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW2BRN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW2STARG" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW2STON2" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "SW2STONE" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITEGRN1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITERED1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Texture "LITEYEL1" is double defined in resource "C:\Users\Seifert\Desktop\NOVA2_D.wad".
Missing patch lump 'TNQREDWL' while loading texture 'TNQREDWL'. Did you forget to include required resources?
Missing patch lump 'TNQSUPT3' while loading texture 'TNQSUPT3'. Did you forget to include required resources?

		
	

[dobu gabu maru]

My bad; I uploaded the fix. I'll also get rid of those double textures in the next alpha (I'm still new to compiling textures).