Public Automap Service Announcement

[Xaser]

A note to all mappers out there: If you don't utilize the 'Secret' linedef flag, I'm gonna spoil all your traps by checking the automap.



I'm probably a bit more susceptible to this than most since i'm a compulsive automap-checker, but this kind of thing sticks out like a sore thumb to me and has ruined a lot of what would be otherwise-great surprises. It takes a little bit of effort to get things marked properly, but I'd recommend getting into the habit so folks like myself don't get non-cheating foresight like this. x:

Anyone else in the same boat? Surely I'm not alone on this... :P

[Also, as a disclaimer, I'm not meaning to pick on Stewboy (screenshot's from his 32in24-14 map) or anyone else in particular; just a thing I noticed in several -14 entries recently so I'm semi-ranting a bit. :P]

[Vermil]

I usually hide my traps on the automap with the secret flag, but I can also understand that mappers may leave the lines visible to give players warning, or to make them tense.

Afterall, just because we know the wall there will probably (a mapper might place walls all over there map that look like they may move, but in reality they never do, to make the player tense) move at some point, we don't know exactly when it will move and when it does, will it be to spring a trap or simply a passageway to another area of the map.

[joepallai]

yep, same boat

also mark the following lines as secret/hidden to clean up the auto-map:
ceiling detail lines within a room
light gradient lines
split sectored monster boxes hidden off to the side when giving the Computer map powerup

[Memfis]

This is like skill settings: I don't use them so it's hard to find motivation to spend time on implementing them.

Maybe make a GZDoom Builder script called something like "make two-sided lines secret if one of the adjoining sectors has zero height".

And "make two-sided lines hidden if they don't affect movement".

Then ppl could run these scripts when they are done with their map.

[Obsidian]

I am rather reliant on my automap so yeah, same boat. The Secret flag is surprisingly underutilized nowdays.

[MFG38]

Memfis said:

This is like skill settings: I don't use them so it's hard to find motivation to spend time on implementing them.

I'm of the similar sort.

[scifista42]

Yes, I also hide traps with Secret-flagged linedefs.

Memfis said:

Maybe make a GZDoom Builder script called something like "make two-sided lines secret if one of the adjoining sectors has zero height AND the line doesn't have a door action".

And "make two-sided lines hidden if they don't affect movement OR if they can't be ever viewed by the player".

Then ppl could run these scripts when they are done with their map.

With the additions I've written there, it sounds like a good idea. :P

[jmickle66666666]

that seems like a useful tool idea...

[Ribbiks]

in some situations I don't have any problem letting the player know in advance from what directions monsters will originate. conveying a rough idea of an encounter before it begins I think buys you some leeway to make it harder without passing over into "well that was bullshit" territory. that said, if you want the mere presence of baddies to be oh so shocking then sure secret linedefs ftw.

I'll +1 though that I never use automap unless I get lost. I'd say a majority of the time traps are pretty predictable based on the room design (particularly so if you're familiar with the author or at least their general style).

[TimeOfDeath]

I use the automap a lot during first playthroughs, but I actually prefer the secret flag to NOT be used (I like to see what walls might lower/raise later). I'm fine with the secret flag for traps, but secrets that use the flag usually bother me.

The flag really only works for first playthroughs. I normally only use it for control sectors that are attached to the main map (not dummy sectors in the void) so that people won't wonder why that wall is a different colour and it never lowers/raises.

[TwinBeast]

Sometimes I use the secret flag, sometimes I don't. I think in my recent levels I mostly didn't use it, so that the automap would be more useful with having clues for the secrets and traps.

[40oz]

if a trap door is tagged secret and appears red on the automap, does it stay red after the trap has been activated?

FWIW a red key at the end of an empty long hallway is enough of an indicator of a trap without the automap giving it away.

[Da Werecat]

If I think that a secret is impossible to spot without an automap clue, I don't use the "secret" flag. It's wrong to force the player to hump random walls, although I think that the clues visible "with the naked eye" are better than automap metagamery.

It's also worth remembering that the "secret" flag prevents monsters from opening doors => when you don't use said flag for a secret door, you should probably pick the action more carefully.

40oz said:

if a trap door is tagged secret and appears red on the automap, does it stay red after the trap has been activated?

Yes.

[scifista42]

Da Werecat said:

Yes.

A Secret-flagged linedef has yet another wonderful quality: It will appear on the automap even if there's zero height difference between floors and ceilings of the 2 sectors this linedef connects (or if it's just located inside a single sector). That's something that not even "Shown" linedef flag can enforce.

[40oz]

Da Werecat said:

It's also worth remembering that the "secret" flag prevents monsters from opening doors => when you don't use said flag for a secret door, you should probably pick the action more carefully.

That's interesting. Though I have it pretty ingrained in my head that monsters will use door action 1 and not 117

[wesleyjohnson]

Generally I feel that the automap should not show anything the player cannot see (and map) for themselves.
If a door is secret and the automap might give it away, then it needs SECRET.
For traps, there ought to be some kind of clue. I am not a fan of surprises, and a bunch of monsters in the walls opened by grabbing the key is not even a plus point for the level. There ought to be a clue that the walls are going to open, and if there is then there should not be SECRET on the lines.
When there is no clue, and I am suspicious, then I do check the automap for the yellow lines.
I you do manage to hide all clues, and the automap clues, and the walls do open, then I will be disappointed anyway.

What is more useful is removing clutter by using the NOMAP flag.
The player can consider the automap as what the known map of the area
was when the last map was made. Then new tunnels, monster alterations, and some debris would not appear on it. They can all be marked NOMAP.
NOMAP also for trigger lines, and sectoring for light levels.

[Xaser]

As an aside, whether or not a particular trap/secret is well designed is a separate (though related) issue. Trapdoors opening on picking up a key are indeed cliche and will be expected whether or not the flag is used, but absence of the flag also ruins otherwise clever things, for example an innocuous hallway that suddenly drops the player into a pit of monsters a la MAP12.

Perhaps a better example I could've highlighted in the map I used as a sample: a couple of the key-doors have an S1 action that also open a couple of "decorative" alcoves behind the player, which would be neat and unexpected if the alcove walls didn't show up as yellow lines on the Automap. :(