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Chris Hansen

Mythbusters tackles DOOM!

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From Bethesda blog:

In this special episode dedicated to the hobby near and dear to our hearts, we’re excited that id Software’s own Tim Willits will be helping Adam and Jamie dig into an often-discussed topic of FPS games: Is it really possible for someone to carry all those health packs, guns, and even a chainsaw? Using the DOOM universe and DOOM 3 BFG Edition for reference, Tim helps the team recreate a DOOM level in real life.

I like DOOM. I like Mythbusters! This should be interesting! :D

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That's awesome!!! :D

I know it's wishful thinking, but every now and then id Software do something to remind people that Doom is still around... could something bigger be approaching soon? :P

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Patrol1985 said:

That's awesome!!! :D

I know it's wishful thinking, but every now and then id Software do something to remind people that Doom is still around... could something bigger be approaching soon? :P


Yeah, I hate to admit it, but I had similar thoughts. Right now, I just act all naive and happy about it!

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Coopersville said:

My friend told me this episode already aired, the liar.


He's half right. Ive seen a thing on the internet where people already tested this.

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Technician said:

Pfft. What does Willits know about Doom.


Like it or not, as far as the current lineup of id Software is concerned, Willits is the most experienced team member and designer.

Am I the only person happy that he's the one to call the shots there? :D

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Sounds pretty interesting and good, even though a few things separate it from perfection. (Romero instead of Willits, classic IWADs instead of D3 BFG Edition, more authentic Doom guns in the trailer) I'm giving their idea a warm welcome anyway, of course!

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Technician said:

Pfft. What does Willits know about Doom.


He's been there since Ultimate Doom (for which he designed a few maps) so quite a lot I think.

Patrol1985 said:

Like it or not, as far as the current lineup of id Software is concerned, Willits is the most experienced team member and designer.

Am I the only person happy that he's the one to call the shots there? :D


Both Romero and Carmack became unsuitable for Id after a while. Willits seems more level-headed.

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Patrol1985 said:

I know it's wishful thinking, but every now and then id Software do something to remind people that Doom is still around... could something bigger be approaching soon? :P


That's what I thought when BFG Edition was announced. 2,5 years ago.

Patrol1985 said:

Like it or not, as far as the current lineup of id Software is concerned, Willits is the most experienced team member and designer.


Actually Kevin Cloud beats him by several years. Kevin's been there since Wolf3d I think.

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Touchdown said:

Actually Kevin Cloud beats him by several years. Kevin's been there since Wolf3d I think.


Yep. Kevin was an assistant artist and he was hired when they began work on Wolf 3D.

He's now lead artist and co-owner. I think Tim can be a total fucking dolt sometimes.

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Touchdown said:

Actually Kevin Cloud beats him by several years. Kevin's been there since Wolf3d I think.


Kevin beats him by sheer number of years, but Kevin is an ARTIST whereas Willits is a MAPPER and LEAD DESIGNER. If the new Doom fails, Willits is the man to blame, but I'm confident in his skills.

DooM_RO said:

Both Romero and Carmack became unsuitable for Id after a while. Willits seems more level-headed.


My thoughts exactly. I like Carmack and Romero more than Willits, but objectively speaking I think Willits shows better potential to actually "get the game released".

Fuzzyfireball said:

I think Tim can be a total fucking dolt sometimes.


I wholeheartedly agree - I never said I liked him as a person, because some of his past thoughts are "controversial" so say the least. Nevertheless, he has been with id since around 1995, has lots of experience in his field and is a hard worker. I REALLY liked Rage (I know opinions are varied) and it was basically "his project" since he was the lead designer. I think the new Doom can benefit from his skills.

Besides, some people have already seen game footage at the last Quakecon. All the feedback I've read has been vastly positive. Not ONE person criticized what they saw. The "only" thing to do is to actually complete the damn game and get it released. Design decisions seem to be going in the right direction.

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Patrol1985 said:

I wholeheartedly agree - I never said I liked him as a person, because some of his past thoughts are "controversial" so say the least. Nevertheless, he has been with id since around 1995, has lots of experience in his field and is a hard worker. I REALLY liked Rage (I know opinions are varied) and it was basically "his project" since he was the lead designer. I think the new Doom can benefit from his skills.

Besides, some people have already seen game footage at the last Quakecon. All the feedback I've read has been vastly positive. Not ONE person criticized what they saw. The "only" thing to do is to actually complete the damn game and get it released. Design decisions seem to be going in the right direction.


Fun fact, he was a designer on Strife as well, which has many similarities to RAGE. I liked RAGE too, it was a bit of a mess but shooting stuff was damn fun.

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DooM_RO said:

Fun fact, he was a designer on Strife as well, which has many similarities to RAGE.


He was? Doomwiki.org states that he was a level designer (not game designer) and Wikipedia mentions only Jim Molinets as the designer.

Still, even if he was a level designer it only adds to his experience. I'm really bothered only by the fact that he's not as community-friendly as Carmack / Romero.

Then again, they were unnaturally friendly compared to industry standards (releasing source code, meeting fans, sharing stories and Doom trivia 20 years after the release etc.) so I might be a little spoiled ;)

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Patrol1985 said:

He was? Doomwiki.org states that he was a level designer (not game designer) and Wikipedia mentions only Jim Molinets as the designer.

Still, even if he was a level designer it only adds to his experience. I'm really bothered only by the fact that he's not as community-friendly as Carmack / Romero.

Then again, they were unnaturally friendly compared to industry standards (releasing source code, meeting fans, sharing stories and Doom trivia 20 years after the release etc.) so I might be a little spoiled ;)


Ah yes, he was a mapper, not a designer. My bad.

I'm not sure he's unfriendly, he said developer tools are getting harder and harder to use and made into mod tools. You can't just open Doombuilder and slap a few sectors anymore. He has a point though, no one did ANYTHING with Id Tech 5 so I would forgive them if they didn't release mod tools for Doom 4, even though I really want them to.

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DooM_RO said:

I'm not sure he's unfriendly


I lack the source, but he allegedly said that people who buy used games are "thieves" and is a firm supporter of DRM. While I understand why he does that it's hardly being "friendly". I can't imagine Carmack or Romero stating such things.

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Patrol1985 said:

could something bigger be approaching soon? :P


Doom 4? And I think some kind of Mythbusters-like TV show (but not Mythbusters themselves) had tackled this very issue a few years ago.

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I love it when Doom appears in the more mainstream video world. That Immersion video was hilarious and I'm sure the Mythbusters one will be entertaining as well. Stuff like this is great.

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Tim Willits and Doom 3 BFG edition should not be considered credible in this context.

But what can you do, things have gone to shit these days. It's too bad this was never done when ID was in it's hayday.

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What the hell? Mythbusters is still a thing? Too bad I stopped watching Discovery/having cable cable a long time ago, I really liked that show when the B team weren't being too doopy about everything. I didn't mind them too much, it's just that Jamie and Adam always seemed to have the cooler myths.

From the trailer I am disappointed there's no lifty-doors but the use of colored lighting makes up for it, though it remains to be seen if Adam will straferun/wallrun. I also now want an Adam Savage Zandronum skin with clips taken from the show as his voice bytes. It's pretty obvious what his taunt would be.

Also I'm kind of surprised Romero isn't in on this deal too.

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Jaxxoon R said:

though it remains to be seen if Adam will straferun/wallrun.


We will witness the first ever human SR50.

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Kinda disappointed that they're using Willits and Doom 3 for the demonstration, but I like Mythbusters so I'll watch it anyway.

DooM_RO said:

Both Romero and Carmack became unsuitable for Id after a while. Willits seems more level-headed.

If Masters of Doom is to be believed, then yes, Romero did get a bit carried away with deathmatch, but Carmack stayed very productive. Zenimax screwed him over. Willits has questionable views and seems kinda passionless to me.

Jaxxoon R said:

Also I'm kind of surprised Romero isn't in on this deal too.

He'd have been a far better pick for many reasons, but he's been out of the company for almost two decades and Zenimax doesn't exactly seem to like former employees much (just look at how they treated Carmack!).

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Patrol1985 said:

Kevin beats him by sheer number of years, but Kevin is an ARTIST whereas Willits is a MAPPER and LEAD DESIGNER. If the new Doom fails, Willits is the man to blame, but I'm confident in his skills.

Implying id's games haven't been on downward slope since Willits was made lead designer. The man has been on cruise control for years.

Also, Kevin has been more than just an artist. He was a lead designer and director of Quake 2

Sodaholic said:

If Masters of Doom is to be believed, then yes, Romero did get a bit carried away with deathmatch, but Carmack stayed very productive. Zenimax screwed him over. Willits has questionable views and seems kinda passionless to me.

Unless he's talking about Adrian Carmack. Adrian himself stated that by the time Doom 3 was in development he was acting more as an art director rather than contributing artwork. I think technology and direction surpassed him by this point.

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Technician said:

Implying id's games haven't been on downward slope since Willits was made lead designer. The man has been on cruise control for years.

I question how much of a designer he even is (at least at the start of his career). Didn't his sister design his maps on paper and Willits simply implemented it in playable form?

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Sodaholic said:

Kinda disappointed that they're using Willits and Doom 3 for the demonstration, but I like Mythbusters so I'll watch it anyway.

If Masters of Doom is to be believed, then yes, Romero did get a bit carried away with deathmatch, but Carmack stayed very productive. Zenimax screwed him over. Willits has questionable views and seems kinda passionless to me.


So MegaTextures were Zenimax's fault? Did the world really need megatextures? Who asked for them? Also, while the Doom 3 engine was really advanced, they couldn't make bigger rooms with more monsters because it slogged the game. It was a great engine but it seems like game functionality came second and the other guys had to somehow make a game around that. Have you ever wondered why the outdoor sections were noticeably shittier than the rest? This is why.

As for Romero, it's wasn't just the Deathmatching, had he stayed he would have made a game similar to Daikatana. His ego got in the way of everything. It's funny how that D&D game foretold the future. If I remember correctly, there was a deal with the devil at one point and it was all determined by the dice. The deal was a 50& chance to make his character super powerful or destroy the world. The word "Daikatana" was also connected too somehow but I forgot how. Carmack said that D&D can show how a person really is.

Technician said:

Implying id's games haven't been on downward slope since Willits was made lead designer. The man has been on cruise control for years.

Also, Kevin has been more than just an artist. He was a lead designer and director of Quake 2


Which is the worst game Id ever made. Brown corridors, more brown corridors. I can't remember anything noteworthy from that game.

Patrol1985 said:

I lack the source, but he allegedly said that people who buy used games are "thieves" and is a firm supporter of DRM. While I understand why he does that it's hardly being "friendly". I can't imagine Carmack or Romero stating such things.


Carmack flat-out said that the PC market is not viable anymore and that consoles were the way to go.

http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such-a-cluster

And this is comming from the guy who pretty much made PC gaming. I understand this from a business perspective but he could have used a little more tact.

We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games," Carmack added. "That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version. A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it. Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases."

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