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Pure Hellspawn

22 Year Old Guy With Aspergers Gets Embarrassed At Target, Kills Self

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2924517/Target-employee-Asperger-s-Syndrome-committed-suicide-humiliation-wrongly-accused-stealing-paraded-store-handcuffs.html

Interesting article. 22 year old guy got taken advantage of at the Target he worked at and got framed by a rival coworker for stealing. They then took him to the police area in a way everyone could see. Eventually gets fired and three days later jumps off a Marriott. He was in the military which is significant since autism of any kind is a disqualifying condition. The mother is suing Target for damages relating to this incident.

My thoughts are everyone goes through rough things in life and part of living is you have to learn to deal with them. It seems like he was unable to cope with the real world and needed a real protected environment which is common for people with ASDs. Sometimes it's best to deal with reality - not everyone is able to deal with it.

It's still sad how he died and I can see how he'd think his life might be ruined (since it's hard enough for people on the spectrum to get jobs). But this isn't something someone able to function in society would off themselves for; sure it would hurt a lot and it may take a while but most people would get over it.

Thoughts?

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Target is not at fault, this guy's mother is an idiot thinking it is.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

He was in the military which is significant since autism of any kind is a disqualifying condition


I don't think many psychiatrists would even recognize Asperger's as an actual condition. Currently, it's considered just as serious as saying that the guy was "lovesick".

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Maes said:

I don't think many psychiatrists would even recognize Asperger's as an actual condition. Currently, it's considered just as serious as saying that the guy was "lovesick".



Which is weird because Asperger's is probably one of the more serious conditions out there. Fewer people DX'D on the spectrum have work than those who do who have intellectual disability (folks with mental retardation).

On another note, I hope Target wins. For one thing people go through shit just as embarrassing (if not worse) than this guy did. And target has the right to investigate potential theft. What if a similar situation happened but the guy DID steal? You bet your ass there'd still be a lawsuit nevertheless.

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The problem is that the mainstream still sees Asperger's as "a self-diagnosed disease that you get from reading a particular page on Wikipedia", and apparently so do many medical/mental health professionals and procedure manuals, including those used by the Army.

Also, the way the symptomatology is formulated is so vague and generic, that potentially everybody could recognize himself into some of the symptoms. It's so commonly thrown around and easy to self-"diagnose", that it could be almost used as a drop-in replacement for "normal" or "average psychological profile". BTW, that's a pretty common tactic used by horoscopes or magazine-grade psychological tests.

It's a borderline culture-bound syndrome, which many people wouldn' t even know it existed ( or self-diagnose it) if they didn't read about it somewhere.

It's like IQ tests: those that are self-administered (like e.g. online or in a magazine) tend to have little clinical value. Even if you score high on some of them it might simply mean that you're good at scoring high at that sort of tests, and nothing safe can be concluded without a supervised, clinical battery of tests.

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Maes said:

The problem is that the mainstream still sees Asperger's as "a self-diagnosed disease that you get from reading a particular page on Wikipedia", and apparently so do many medical/mental health professionals and procedure manuals, including those used by the Army.

Also, the way the symptomatology is formulated is so vague and generic, that potentially everybody could recognize himself into some of the symptoms (that's a pretty common tactic used by horoscopes or magazine-grade psychological tests, BTW). It's a borderline culture-bound syndrome, which many people wouldn' t even know it existed ( or self-diagnose it) if they didn't read about it somewhere.

It's like IQ tests: those that are self-administered (like e.g. online or in a magazine) tend to have little clinical value. Even if you score high on some of them it might simply mean that you're good at scoring high at that sort of tests, and nothing safe can be concluded without a supervised, clinical battery of tests.


I don't know why anyone would WANT to say they have Asperger's or Autism unless they ACTUALLY HAVE IT. There's absolutely nothing trendy about it. Yes, a lot of the "autism community" says that it's a difference, I strongly doubt it's a difference when the vast majority are unable to live independently or obtain employment with the more severe cases struggling to communicate in any way at all.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

I strongly doubt it's a difference when the vast majority are unable to live independently or obtain employment with the more severe cases struggling to communicate in any way at all.


Those who have a condition severe enough to cause them such impairments would probably get diagnosed as having something more specific, e.g. actual retardation, agoraphobia, social anxiety etc. if they underwent an actual clinical evaluation. But "Severe Asperger's"? When the whole premise of the "disease" is that it's basically a compendium of milder symptoms/forms of more serious mental diseases and phobias? Please.

Also, last time I checked, being just a bit introvert, grumpy or shy doesn't bar one from enlisting in the army (unless YOU make a big deal about it to the military psychiatrist, or your behavior makes it obvious that you would be reduced to a quivering, trembling, scared-to-death being if you are suddenly thrown into a dorm with other 300 rowdy dudes). But then again there are those who think that the Army can actually cure some of these shy guys and make them less of a maggot.

Now, if you somehow manage to enlist despite having an actual autism-like condition, that usually means you'll only serve in positions where this isn't a problem (e.g. picking the trash), and that you will never make it to a position and rank requiring actual responsability, leadership, strong character etc.

Now, I'm trying to understand how the guy could be a "veteran" at 22 and ending up working at Target's....are there any details on how he was discharged from the Army? On where did he serve? Did he see combat?

What makes it even more puzzling for me, is that the guy enlisted in a well-known all-volunteer, professional military. If there really was something wrong with him beyond being a bit shy, how did the doctors let him aboard (short of limiting his career potential to menial tasks)?

It's sadly well known that in Greece (where military service is compulsory), there are several soldier suicides a year (usually during sentry duty), which however tend to be covered up, or attributed to the victim's "latent psychological problems", "trouble at home", "love rejection" etc. But Asperger's? That's trying too hard.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

I don't know why anyone would WANT to say they have Asperger's or Autism unless they ACTUALLY HAVE IT.

When you're a social retard, it's kind of tempting to think that you just have some kind of a disorder and that's where all the problems are coming from. So, "screw trying to work on myself, it's not my fault that I was born this way".

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I wish I could infect other people with aspergers, just to make them experience how easy the life is with it (sarcasm, duh). Yes, you can work on yourself and it really brings awesome results, but there is still lot of uncertainity and confusion, which makes you want to give up. You need to have really strong will to succeed.

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Memfis said:

When you're a social retard, it's kind of tempting to think that you just have some kind of a disorder and that's where all the problems are coming from. So, "screw trying to work on myself, it's not my fault that I was born this way".

This. It's much easier for people to find an affliction that seems relatable to what they are experiencing & then use that affliction as the reason. Back in high school when I started staying up later and waking up later I remember seeing these ads on some articles diagnosing "Delayed Sleep Syndrome" and I ekpt thinking to myself "That must be whats happening to me!". Fortunately I tried showing and explaining this to my father, who quickly proceeded to inform me how there was not a damn thing wrong with me and that I was obviously not suffering from some oddball diagnosis I saw in an ad.

As Memfis said it is much easier to find a reason (or in this case, a mental affliction) that explains your issues and can be blamed for your problems instead of actually going through the process of self-development.

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I did not know something like aspergers syndrome existed until I was diagnosed by psychiatrist after a month and half long hospitalisation. When I was a kid I thought I was being completly normal and it is the other people who are weird and horrible beings.

This whole society is useless, they can not cure our condition, they can only give you some stupid pills which were not even made to help with aspergers.

Why do blind people not improve their eyesight? are they too lazy to watch the objects in front of them?

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Memfis said:

When you're a social retard, it's kind of tempting to think that you just have some kind of a disorder and that's where all the problems are coming from. So, "screw trying to work on myself, it's not my fault that I was born this way".


Those that ACTUALLY have the disorder and work on their social skills are still going to be awkward, but not socially retarded. I think there's a world of difference between being quirky and socially retarded.

Sokoro said:

I did not know something like aspergers syndrome existed until I was diagnosed by psychiatrist after a month and half long hospitalisation. When I was a kid I thought I was being completly normal and it is the other people who are weird and horrible beings.

This whole society is useless, they can not cure our condition, they can only give you some stupid pills which were not even made to help with aspergers.

Why do blind people not improve their eyesight? are they too lazy to watch the objects in front of them?


If you think society is useless then go try finding a cure yourself. Believe me, you'll get freaking rich. Go find something that will help facilitate the chemical processes so that socializing is naturally easier.

Until then, you'll have to either:

A: Improve your social skills.
B: Find a way to live happily requiring minimal use of social skills.
OR
C: Suffer in misery and agony feeling sorry for yourself.

Life's not fair. I didn't get the best roll of the dice either.
You're able to chat here. You're not starving. You don't have progeria or terminal cancer. Deal with it.

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man with assburgers kills himself.

men with assburgers, upon reading the news, don't give a fuck about the dead dude and turn the thread around to their favorite subject, viz; talking about themselves.

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Sokoro said:

I did not know something like aspergers syndrome existed until I was diagnosed by psychiatrist after a month and half long hospitalisation. When I was a kid I thought I was being completly normal and it is the other people who are weird and horrible beings.


Too bad aspergers doesn't exist anymore as a diagnosis since 2013. Oh, and wanna know something that you won't like? Psycho doctors diagnosed aspergers just so they could make assholes and losers blame some third party - "a disease" - for being such. The diagnose itself acted like a placebo effect, it supposedly helped those twats cope with themselves and get them to socialize. I could tell you some more details you might not like if I happen to get drunk with one mate of mine sometime again, coincidentally a psycho doc.

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j4rio said:

Too bad aspergers doesn't exist anymore as a diagnosis since 2013.


They just reclassified it. His diagnosis is valid and just gets grouped with autism.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

I don't know why anyone would WANT to say they have Asperger's or Autism unless they ACTUALLY HAVE IT.

For the same reason that anyone would claim to have any particular problem or issue about themselves. This could be anything from attention they think they aren't getting or even as an excuse for personal faults on which to lay blame for their real or perceived failures in life.

There's absolutely nothing trendy about it.

Hmmm, maybe not quite as much as it once was a few years ago but it still lingers on until one by one, people start dropping their ruse and accept who they are and their lot in life.

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darknation said:

man with assburgers kills himself.

men with assburgers, upon reading the news, don't give a fuck about the dead dude and turn the thread around to their favorite subject, viz; talking about themselves.

QFT

j4rio said:

Psycho doctors diagnosed aspergers just so they could make assholes and losers blame some third party - "a disease" - for being such. The diagnose itself acted like a placebo effect, it supposedly helped those twats cope with themselves and get them to socialize.

"You're not a bad boy, just sick in the head."

It's too bad that particular placebo wasn't available when I was young, it would have been preferable to "nothing wrong with him that a good thrashing can't fix".

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Whatever happened to people just being socially awkward? Ahhh, self-important assholes gotta fuck it up for everybody, coining these new-age 'conditions.'

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Sokoro said:

This whole society is useless, they can not cure our condition

Society doesn't owe you a cure! Your problems are your problems. Which sounds like a cruel and selfish way for the rest of the world to be until you realize that everyone else in the world has problems too, of which many are significantly worse than yours.

Furthermore you need to recognize that your problems literally come from yourself, even if you can't control them, which means it's both fruitless and completely irrational to blame them on anything else - whether it be society at large or an obsolete diagnosis like "aspergers syndrome."

You really should think about that for a moment, you know. Your diagnosis was not invented so you could have a personal mental whipping boy for all your problems. It was invented by professionals simply so they could better classify people with apparent mental disorders like you. Having failed at that task the label has since been retired... which for any other disease would be completely unremarkable, except now there are thousands of "aspergic" individuals who are either ignoring this decision or whining to get their old whipping boy back. Do you not see the problem here, how this sort of reaction would be unique to people like you?

Regardless of whatever problems you think you have, here is my advice: change your outlook on life and start being a caring person instead of constantly singling yourself out from the rest of humanity as a misunderstood victim of unfair circumstances, and I guarantee that you'll ultimately find yourself much happier than if you just sailed all through life with a chip on your shoulder like this.

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To reiterate what Aliotroph said, Aspergers has been removed from the DSM, and replaced by the more general ASD - I take it that the set of behaviours that were collected under Aspergers was deemed unnecessarily rigid, since people presenting with some of those behaviours and not others may still meet more general criteria for high functioning autism. More info here.

Maes said:

I don't think many psychiatrists would even recognize Asperger's as an actual condition. Currently, it's considered just as serious as saying that the guy was "lovesick".

Where are you getting that from? Speaking anecdotally, I've known a number of well regarded practising cognitive psychologists (of course, not psychiatrists) with a keen interest in ASD. I've also known of psychiatrists - chiefly in France - who don't believe in autism at all, or cognitive psychology more generally, and who believe all cognitive disorders - even extreme cases of autism - can and should be treated by Freudian methods. But that's something of a national scandal, which would otherwise be quite funny were it not for the fact that it was preventing people from getting appropriate treatment.

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sheridan said:

Society doesn't owe you a cure! Your problems are your problems.


Until he grabs a shotgun and shots up his local grade school. Then it becomes everyone else's problem too!

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durian said:

Where are you getting that from?


I think you answered your own question. The jist of it is that it's not unanimously recognized by the psychiatric community, and even when it is recognized, most diagnoses appear to be self-administered by the "patients" due to the Forer effect, rather than by a professional psychiatrical evaluation.

At least it's not at the level of homeopathy or balance bracelets, but as it stands it's at the level of a culture-bound syndrome, at best (I wouldn't be surprised if it exists as such only in Western, industrialized societies, with the major exception of Japan's pretty similar Hikikomori).

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From the fact that Aspergers is not unanimously recognised, it does not follow that not many psychiatrists would recognise it as an actual condition, so I don't know why you think I answered my own question - you only need one dissenting voice for a failure of unanimity. Moreover, how is the lack of unanimity relevant? I certainly wouldn't treat the views of practising cognitive psychologists with strong research and clinical backgrounds vs. the views of committed Freudians with equal weight - the comparison between established medicine and astrology or homeopathy is far more apt here, I should think. And with phrases like 'even where it is recognised' you're speaking as if it's an outlying or minority view, but as I noted, ASD is covered in the DSM, so clearly it is recognised by a very significant branch of the psychology/psychiatry establishment - if it were so obviously to be dismissed along with various brands of quack medicine, then presumably it wouldn't be there.

I agree, though, that it's probably been subject to much misguided self-diagnosis, but again, this has absolutely no bearing on whether or not it exists.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

Which is weird because Asperger's is probably one of the more serious conditions out there.


Ummm, nope. You can damn well have Asperger's and still live life to the fullest pretty much.

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MFG38 said:

Ummm, nope. You can damn well have Asperger's and still live life to the fullest pretty much.



this is true, but most people diagnosed do not. Key word being most. But you are right, some people who have it do succeed.

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Aliotroph? said:

They just reclassified it. His diagnosis is valid and just gets grouped with autism.


The so-called autism spectrum works as a dumping ground for all pseudo-diseases as of lately. The very term "autism" was used to describe serious impairment and broadening the term with milder stages had little to no benefit - symptoms are almost universally differing from person to person, diagnose is basically the doctor flipping a coin and treatment is nonexistant anyway. It's like a whole business built on placebo effect.

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durian said:

From the fact that Aspergers is not unanimously recognised, it does not follow that not many psychiatrists would recognise it as an actual condition, so I don't know why you think I answered my own question - you only need one dissenting voice for a failure of unanimity.


I thought that in this context, it was obvious that those dissenting voices came from those who'd be more authoritative - psychiatrists, not laypersons whose opinion would be irrelevant.

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