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VGA

Best way to play PSX Doom?

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Hello, what's the best way to play the PSX maps? There are some new exclusive maps in the PSX version, right? And the old ones from the PC version I suppose?

It's a little confusing. I mainly use Zdoom lately btw.

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You could try the PSX total conversion for GZDoom.

Though I'd suggest picking up an actual copy of the game for PSX if you want the "true" experience, seeing as the TC isn't 100% accurate, especially in all the small gameplay mechanic differences. If getting an actual PSX console is too much hassle for you, you could always try playing it via emulation.

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I don't know anything about this because I've never had a PS3 (and most likely never will), but I've heard only the first models of the PS3 had backwards compatibility and that it was removed in later revisions.

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Sodaholic said:

I don't know anything about this because I've never had a PS3 (and most likely never will), but I've heard only the first models of the PS3 had backwards compatibility and that it was removed in later revisions.

That was PS2- all PS3s can play PS1 games just fine

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FuzzballFox said:

That was PS2- all PS3s can play PS1 games just fine


Holy shit... I've owned a PS3 for almost 10 years now and I never knew that. Now I'm off to buy a physical copy of PSX Doom. Ebay here I come!

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NOPE

All PS2 models can play almost all PS1 games. PS3 started with PS2/PS1 backwards compatibility but PS2 compatibility was quickly removed in later models, and then PS1 was removed for certain budget models.

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Correct on account of the PS2, but I have never seen a PS3 that cannot play PS1 games.

Pretty sure it is just software emulated now. It may have had hardware compatibility in the early models that included the PS2 hardware (since you couldn't make a PS2 without PS1 guts.. since they re-used the PS1 hardware for things like the DVD drive controller and audio processor).

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I honestly see no point in playing it with the original console version, the console limitations make it much worse than the original PC version of Doom, the PC Total Conversation seems to do the game justice.

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Avoozl said:

I honestly see no point in playing it with the original console version, the console limitations make it much worse than the original PC version of Doom, the PC Total Conversation seems to do the game justice.

No, it's a rather different experience.

The ticrate was 15 and not 35 (though the player movement was at 30hz, either natively or through interpolation, I'm not sure). Many platform speeds were slightly different, inherited from the Jaguar version (slow moving floors lowered faster than they raised on console, on PC they moved the same rate). Many damage algorithms heavily altered not currently replicated by the TC. The levels themselves had 8:7 ratio pixels instead of 5:6. Most important is the lighting: PSX Doom had a sort of overbright effect, GZDoom does not currently have the capability to reproduce this AFAIK, making the levels in the TC look a lot flatter and more washed out.

When it all adds up, every little detail makes the real PSX game feel rather different.

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Conceptually there might not be a point.. but there's still nothing quite like playing the original version.

Even Doom 64 EX can't reproduce the kind of filtering going in that game.. it's too specific to the N64. (Or so Kaiser has told me lol)

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On a PSX hooked up 65 inch tv after a long, miserable and ultimately pointless day in school for roughly an hour before your dad tells you to go to your room and study in 1997.


...


The PSX TC is pretty good to I guess.

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Sodaholic said:

No, it's a rather different experience.

The ticrate was 15 and not 35 (though the player movement was at 30hz, either natively or through interpolation, I'm not sure). Many platform speeds were slightly different, inherited from the Jaguar version (slow moving floors lowered faster than they raised on console, on PC they moved the same rate). Many damage algorithms heavily altered not currently replicated by the TC. The levels themselves had 8:7 ratio pixels instead of 5:6. Most important is the lighting: PSX Doom had a sort of overbright effect, GZDoom does not currently have the capability to reproduce this AFAIK, making the levels in the TC look a lot flatter and more washed out.

When it all adds up, every little detail makes the real PSX game feel rather different.

Yes but VGA is asking for the best way to play them which means they have never played the console version or any for that matter and they may not have the same nostalgic feel for the modified changes to the console version.

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He asked what the best way to play the PSX maps is, which suggests he's not bothered about the authentic PSX Doom experience. I've never played the TC, but I'm guessing that would be the easiest way to check them out.

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I have two PK3s that streamline the console levels into the correct places in the original level order.

In Doom, Sewers is added as a secret level accessible from Hangar; Hell Gate and Keep are added as the second and third levels of Inferno; and Twilight Descends, The Marshes and Threshold of Pain are all after Unto The Cruel. I also added the SNES secret exit to Refinery, though it still leads to Deimos Lab.

Doom II has the secret levels Betray, The Mansion and Club Doom accessible from Underhalls, The Suburbs and The Mansion respectively; and Redemption Denied immediately before Icon of Sin.

I'll upload them when I get home tomorrow evening.

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DoomUK said:

He asked what the best way to play the PSX maps is

And the thread title said "best way to play PSX Doom".

It really depends on the experience you're looking for. The lighting was a pretty huge part of those maps and GZDoom doesn't have a way to replicate it more accurately, yet.

I'd say the TC is the easiest way, but the original game is the best way (until GZDoom has a lightscale property in MAPINFO).

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I agree. And there's quite a difference in the actual playing experience between the actual PSX Doom and the TC. The latter can never be a substitute for the former to me.

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I mainly care about playing the official maps I've not played already. And I can't play Doom with gamepad :-D

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If you go the TC route, just be sure to turn the gamma up since GZDoom doesn't yet support overbrights which the PSX maps relied on for their lighting to look right. As it stands, the TC is far darker than the original game.

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I played through the TC recently for similar reasons (wanting to play the official maps I hadn't played before) and vastly enjoyed it. I have never played the original PSX version so I don't know the "true" experience, but the experience I got was satisfying enough :D

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Jaxxoon R said:

NOPE

All PS2 models can play almost all PS1 games. PS3 started with PS2/PS1 backwards compatibility but PS2 compatibility was quickly removed in later models, and then PS1 was removed for certain budget models.


Incorrect. All PS3s can run PS1 discs, they are fully software emulated. PS2 emulation was originally hardware emulated, the removal of the PS2 chips was what caused PS2 BC to die off.

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Actually, no, not all PS3's have proper PS1 compatibility. I once popped Driver into an unknown model of PS3 and half of the menus refused to display correctly. The game logic worked, but it was a graphical mess at times.

Also, PS2's technically do not support all PlayStation 1 games, but I'm probably the only weirdo who actually has one or two games that don't seem to like a PS2. One of the extremely old PlayStation Sampler discs that came out early in the console's life would crash when a demo finished, and Grandia had a tendency to randomly lock up for no reason. All of my discs are very good condition, by the way.

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BlueFeena said:

Actually, no, not all PS3's have proper PS1 compatibility.


That's correct as well. The software emulation is not perfect. Some games fail to hold full performance. Others seem to break. I believe the games for sale from PSN all work fine for the most part but I can't speak to that fully having not tried them all.

BlueFeena said:

Also, PS2's technically do not support all PlayStation 1 games, but I'm probably the only weirdo who actually has one or two games that don't seem to like a PS2. One of the extremely old PlayStation Sampler discs that came out early in the console's life would crash when a demo finished, and Grandia had a tendency to randomly lock up for no reason. All of my discs are very good condition, by the way.


Correct again. The PlayStation version of Diablo that I own is another example, it does not play on the PS2 I have, is in mint condition, and plays fine on my original playstation.

Castlevania: Symphony of The Night has some technical issues as well that I believe makes 100% completion impossible, but I don't recall the details. Believe it or not there are PS2 games that are not compatible on all PS2s... check the bottom of this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_incompatible_with_PlayStation_2

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Try this. It contains the two PK3s I mentioned earlier that will insert the Console Doom levels in the right places for ZDoom. Might work for other ports as well, but it's untested.

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Recommend playing original on PSone or PS2. The game seems more psychologically disturbing and scary on the original console, and better shows the difference from PC. The slowdown on the console actually adds to the survival horror IMO, along with the dark visuals. Despite the fact Final Doom psx supports mouse, I recommend the gamepad instead (better difficulty IMO). PSX Doom is really good at being PSx Doom, on the PSX :).

Sometimes console games have a original uniqueness that can't be resolved anymore (like via ports or total conversions), unless it's through emulation (and an accurate one).

I personally wish I could do PSX Doom with Gzdoom, without the psx limitations. Most notably enemy placement and super shotgun in Doom 1. Too bad there's no higher resolution scans yet of sprites.

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We can't legally distribute id's resources (maps, textures, and so on) because the PC Doom games are still being sold (this is why the Doom 1 PK3 above requires the Doom 2 iwad). Midway's versions are not still being sold, so using resources from there is another story.

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