[Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Achievement Ideas? (p13)

[Dweller Dark]

Just now, siteod said:

what the entire fuck is going on here

 

The TLDR of it is that some inappropriate and completely unnecessary content has been found within BOA and it's files. Most of it has been mentioned on like page 13 or 14 of this thread onwards, mainly by MajorArlene. 

[Terrcraft]

If I had a nickel for every time a mod based on an IP owned or by Bethesda is involved in a controversy about questionable "edgy" content, I would have 2 nickels.

It's a low amount but its weird it happened twice.

[leodoom85]

2 minutes ago, siteod said:

what the entire fuck is going on here

The right question would be "Are we all entertained?"

 

To be honest with you, I only played like.......2 maps of the very first BoA game and that's it. 

It's honestly a real shame that the conflicted assets stole the show and that goes for the entire series probably...who knows.... 

 

[dac]

20 minutes ago, andreadworkin4thaweekend said:

beyond the obviously shitty hurtful things from above, the more i think about this the more i think this mod doesn’t totally understand what made wolfenstein entertaining

 

for a long time, nazis were hated by a majority of the video gaming public, and thus one was able to play a fps with human enemies without thinking too hard about the murder- nazis are scum, nazis are inhuman, no good nazi but a dead nazi. bringing in generic nazi undead works, because it speaks to their inhumanity. when you start showing the victims of the shoah and making it so you must murder their undead bodies, it no longer lets the player treat their enemies as inhuman, it ruins the power fantasy. it’s not just tasteless, it’s skewering it’s own systems and basis for existence. if you take that away, what remains?

 

I'll probably elaborate on these thoughts later, but this is not something I see as especially wrong. As you said, nazis are a good video game enemy because you don't have to think too much about morality - they're nazis. This does not mean a more serious work could inject a bit of humanity in them - spitballing some ideas here, to break this facade of inhumanity and say nazis were not a special evil, and can be again, and still are. Similar with undead holocaust victims: in the hands of a competent creator, there's potential for a memorable moment, in a traumatising way, about fighting your own kind and realising just how despicable the holocaust machine is. It breaks the power fantasy, sure;

 

Good.

 

But as said, having these parts not go beyond "massive controversy" requires being good at what you do and giving your game a coherent identity that would allow it to go from grindhouse to extremely serious to having enough dramatic weight. I haven't played Blade of Agony yet, probably won't, but from everything I've seen of Torm, from what Arlene/Jabba/Scuba Steve and other folks posted, he's the last man I'd pick for this. (For the record, I don't even think *I* could do it without a massive fuck up, and I have very low levels of edginess.)

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

22 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

The thing is that it sounds like there's a character that references the person (who was known as a male for much of their life). Not a direct representation of the person. So the character being a different gender doesnt imply anything about the person themselves.

 

Cool, I'm going to make a mod and include you as a character. You will be portrayed as a dumbass who defends the honor of other dumbasses using poorly thought out arguments that other dumbasses on the internet like to use. It's okay though, because it wouldn't be a direct representation of your person...oh, wait...

 

It also TOTALLY wouldn't imply that it's a direction representation of how I feel about you.

[Mr. Freeze]

1 minute ago, dac said:

This does not mean a more serious work could inject a bit of humanity in them - spitballing some ideas here, to break this facade of inhumanity and say nazis were not a special evil, and can be again, and still are.

 

And that's what The New Order/Colossus did! And it worked! 

[esselfortium]

The concentration comp zombies are a really remarkable achievement of poor taste. Torm managed to go beyond just tackily depicting the holocaust by having the player character actually participate in it.

[Terrcraft]

Quote

The concentration comp zombies are a really remarkable achievement of poor taste. Torm managed to go beyond just tackily depicting the holocaust by having the player character actually participate in it.

 

Why does it feel like every enormous mod has a shit for brains fucking idiot who adds shit like this? And then the "hopefully" few people that test or work on stuff related to that part somehow get past? 

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons these people never seem to go pro. Not that that's a bad thing tho.

[andreadworkin4thaweekend]

3 minutes ago, dac said:

 

I'll probably elaborate on these thoughts later, but this is not something I see as especially wrong. As you said, nazis are a good video game enemy because you don't have to think too much about morality - they're nazis. This does not mean a more serious work could inject a bit of humanity in them - spitballing some ideas here, to break this facade of inhumanity and say nazis were not a special evil, and can be again, and still are. Similar with undead holocaust victims: in the hands of a competent creator, there's potential for a memorable moment, in a traumatising way, about fighting your own kind and realising just how despicable the holocaust machine is. It breaks the power fantasy, sure;

 

Good.

 

But as said, having these parts not go beyond "massive controversy" requires being good at what you do and giving your game a coherent identity that would allow it to go from grindhouse to extremely serious to having enough dramatic weight. I haven't played Blade of Agony yet, probably won't, but from everything I've seen of Torm, from what Arlene/Jabba/Scuba Steve and other folks posted, he's the last man I'd pick for this. (For the record, I don't even think *I* could do it without a massive fuck up, and I have very low levels of edginess.)

you aren’t wrong that something could be an interesting study, although one i ultimately think isn’t possible to do right by all parties. something like The Act of Killing only works because the people playing the role of the nazis were the victors. 

 

the nü wolf games also don’t do this particularly well: on the one hand having stolen ancient jewish technology be the way the nazis win is a sort of interesting way of turning the plot on its ear, if you take that to its logical endpoint the game gives cover for antisemitism. the jews are the other, with the technology capable of subjugating the world, thus fighting against them can be rationalized as a societal good. not something i agree with, but an example of how good professional writers will trip over themselves on this subject matter.

[Mr. Freeze]

1 minute ago, terrcraftguy695 said:

 

Why does it feel like every enormous mod has a shit for brains fucking idiot who adds shit like this? And then the "hopefully" few people that test or work on stuff related to that part somehow get past? 

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons these people never seem to go pro. Not that that's a bad thing tho.

 

Y'all motherfuckers need editors. 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

6 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

The concentration comp zombies are a really remarkable achievement of poor taste. Torm managed to go beyond just tackily depicting the holocaust by having the player character actually participate in it.

 

If you go back to page nine, you can see Tormentor's response when I pointed it out to him. I figured it was going to be some "be a hero and storm into the concentration camp" bullshit, but this is even worse.

[whirledtsar]

7 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

 

Cool, I'm going to make a mod and include you as a character. You will be portrayed as a dumbass who defends the honor of other dumbasses using poorly thought out arguments that other dumbasses on the internet like to use. It's okay though, because it wouldn't be a direct representation of your person...oh, wait...

I have a sense of humor, so if a mod depicted me as a drunkard or shitting (which is what NotJabba said this mod does), I'd find it amusing. How about, instead of assuming it was made with offensive intent and has offended the relevant people, we let the people themselves respond? Are Heit and Enjay offended? Or are people feeling offended on their behalf?

[Dweller Dark]

1 minute ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

Y'all motherfuckers need editors. 

 

Also reliable people to play the mod/game before release to make sure the content is safe and appropriate, just in case it gets past the editors somehow.

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

How about, instead of assuming it was made with offensive intent and has offended the relevant people, we let the people themselves respond? Are Heit and Enjay offended? Or are people feeling offended on their behalf?

Look, I know you wanna sound off like you know what you're talking about, but even you should realize that these pivots there are completely and utterly nonsensical - not to mention irrelevant.

 

What's relevant here is what's in the mod, and how it is perceived by the community and its respective moderators, who have every right to remove this content if they so desire. Pick your battles more carefully, and next time, don't show up empty-handed.

[esselfortium]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

Y'all motherfuckers need editors. 

From what I understand, this released version is what resulted after being reviewed and edited. Among other things, pre-release builds actually referenced Dachau by name.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

 

11 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

I have a sense of humor, so if a mod depicted me as a drunkard or shitting (which is what NotJabba said this mod does), I'd find it amusing. How about, instead of assuming it was made with offensive intent and has offended the relevant people, we let the people themselves respond? Are Heit and Enjay offended? Or are people feeling offended on their behalf?

It's understandable you'd feel that way, but a poor comparison because as far as I'm aware, you haven't posted anything about having a drinking problem, as to where Heit has posted about being trans. As for Enjay taking a shit, no, that wouldn't qualify as anything offensive to me IF the rest of the mod didn't contain shock value insults directed at other people in the community.

 

As for the last part of your argument, I guess if you were walking down the street and a guy started yelling racial/sexual slurs at random people, you would be a real man and just stand there and do nothing until confirming that the other person was offended.

Edited June 8, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[leodoom85]

1 minute ago, esselfortium said:

From what I understand, this released version is what resulted after being reviewed and edited. Development builds actually referenced Dachau by name.

Guess that a better QA wasn't applied.

[andreadworkin4thaweekend]

8 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

I have a sense of humor, so if a mod depicted me as a drunkard or shitting (which is what NotJabba said this mod does), I'd find it amusing. How about, instead of assuming it was made with offensive intent and has offended the relevant people, we let the people themselves respond? Are Heit and Enjay offended? Or are people feeling offended on their behalf?

why the hell is it on the people that are angry and hurt by the mid have to turn the other cheek and assume that even if there was no offense intended, they can’t still be hurt

 

i know the answer because you think of these hurtful things as being funny, given your sense of humor line. i think perhaps you don’t understand why people are angry and should maybe sit this one out. 

[Terrcraft]

Just now, esselfortium said:

From what I understand, this released version is what resulted after being reviewed and edited. Development builds actually referenced Dachau by name.

You gotta be fucking with me right? How on fucking earth does a review and edit only pick up on "hey maybe we shouldn't name the concentration camp after a real one" AND NOT ANYTHING ELSE

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU FUCK UP THIS BAD. LITERALLY HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

[Mr. Freeze]

8 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

From what I understand, this released version is what resulted after being reviewed and edited. Among other things, pre-release builds actually referenced Dachau by name.

 

I am rescinding my previous statement to include *good* editors. 

[Tarnsman]

2 minutes ago, terrcraftguy695 said:

only pick up on

 

Hey maybe there was just so much objectionable stuff in it that they picked up on a quite a lot of it and then the other stuff was kept because it didn't seem quite as bad. Kind of how Fight Club got away with the abortion line by having the original one be way worse.

[whirledtsar]

2 minutes ago, andreadworkin4thaweekend said:

why the hell is it on the people that are angry and hurt by the mid have to turn the other cheek and assume that even if there was no offense intended, they can’t still be hurt

 

i know the answer because you think of these hurtful things as being funny, given your sense of humor line. i think perhaps you don’t understand why people are angry and should maybe sit this one out. 

But the actual alleged victims havent actually posted anything in this thread or made their feelings known as far as I can see. Its true that whether or not one is offended by these things is a difference in sense of humor. But out of everyone, it's definitely not me thats projecting my sense of humor, because I havent made a claim that they are or are not offended. 

 

But anyways, yes, I do think its conducive to a friendly environment to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

8 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

But anyways, yes, I do think its conducive to a friendly environment to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Do you give the benefit of doubt to the people here who think you're acting like a child, or are they just kidding? None of your arguments are intelligent and nothing you say makes sense.

 

Then again, what can you expect from someone who named their account after Worldstar, a website that is totally conductive to a friendly environment?

[Murdoch]

*insert dumpster fire meme here*

 

You've done it again Torm. It would be oddly impressive if it were not so disturbing.

[Terrcraft]

9 minutes ago, Tarnsman said:

Hey maybe there was just so much objectionable stuff in it that they picked up on a quite a lot of it and then the other stuff was kept because it didn't seem quite as bad. Kind of how Fight Club got away with the abortion line by having the original one be way worse.

I don't know if you could get any worse without being something you would see in pol.wad. 

You're right though for all we know in the original not edited part 3 was that you became a nazi or something. 

And then because BJ is a nazi and that like any reasonable person hates nazis, BJ kills himself.
I know I wouldn't be expecting that when playing a mod.

 

^/s

[whirledtsar]

2 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Do you give the benefit of doubt to the people here who think you're acting like a child, or are they just kidding? None of your arguments are intelligent and nothing you say makes sense.

The benefit of the doubt isnt relevant in this situation because theyve made their feelings explicitly clear. Thats obviously different from a case where someone's intentions are up for interpretation. Do you see the distinction there or do you feel those are equivalent?

[Nine Inch Heels]

10 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

But the actual alleged victims havent actually posted anything in this thread or made their feelings known as far as I can see. Its true that whether or not one is offended by these things is a difference in sense of humor. But out of everyone, it's definitely not me thats projecting my sense of humor, because I havent made a claim that they are or are not offended.

I don't know where you live, but where I'm from, arguments like yours lose their charms in sandboxes already, kindergarten the latest...

 

First of all, you really don't get to hide behind "The actual people themselves haven't said anything, so no harm no foul", because that's just not how it works when you share something with a community that happens to know said people or their backgrounds...

 

Secondly, deadnaming is not something that falls in the "sense of humour category" unless you are enough of an asshole to think that causing gender dysphoria is funny, so congratz on dropping the mask, I guess...

 

And number three; you wouldn't keep arguing here if you didn't project your sense of humour at all...

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 minute ago, whirledtsar said:

case where someone's intentions are up for interpretation.

Up for interpretation if you're a dimwit who can't read between the lines. You're just admitting that you're so dull that you need everything in life explicitly spelled out for you, otherwise you can't understand.

[whirledtsar]

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Secondly, deadnaming is not something that falls in the "sense of humour category" unless you are enough of an asshole to think that causing gender dysphoria is funny, so congratz on dropping the mask, I guess...

 

I didnt even mention the alleged deadnaming in that post because I already addressed it earlier (it doesnt seem like that was the intent). It wasnt related to the stuff about sense of humor. Again, assuming the absolute worst intentions with no evidence to make the other side look bad. Its disheartening that so many of the old guard on here want to use debate tactics to smear people instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt to avoid drama.

[Terrcraft]

4 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

The benefit of the doubt isnt relevant in this situation because theyve made their feelings explicitly clear. Thats obviously different from a case where someone's intentions are up for interpretation. Do you see the distinction there or do you feel those are equivalent?

 

Lemme guess.

You failed a lot of high school English comprehension tests didn't ya?