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Der Gillster

Hardest DOOM version you ever played?

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Hello, what is the hardest doom game you ever played whether it be the original, the sequel, the expansion plutonia, or a fan made wad like alien vendetta. What was the hardest version of doom you played, and to be more specific what level stood out of that game being so challenging that you remember stood out to you?

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The hardest version of Doom for me personally is probably the SNES port, for one simple reason.. No circle strafing! I think I have beaten it in years gone by, but if so then only one time.

I also for the life of me can NOT beat Map13 (Downtown) on the GBA version of Doom2. Even running to the invuln sphere and trying to speedrun the map has yet to work for me. Everything just feels so damn sluggish on that map.

These days, I don't have much trouble with any of the IWADS on ultra violence. The game has taught me that mouse+keyboard is far and away the best control scheme for FPS. Controllers of all varieties are just too clunky for the needed precision.

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I would say GBA port, saturn port or panasonic 3do port simply because of limitations of movement and overall sluggishness

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v1.0

okay, the "BFG Edition/Doom Classic" for consoles because of the crippled look sensitivity and everything.

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I think a playstation controller is even harder to use with PC FPS games than like say an XBOX 360 controller.

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Der Gillster said:

or a fan made wad

So our community's usermade wads count too? Then it's clear: Slaughterfest wads + any maps by Demonologist + other brutal over-the-top slaughtermaps.

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If we're judging difficulty on the basis of controller-induced handicap, then the thread's title should be changed.

Once again, I'd like to see how various COMPET-N records would change if there were special leagues/classes for using specific types of controls (e.g. pure keyboard, pure mouse, pure gamepad).

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In terms of level difficulty, Plutonia for sure.

In terms of ergonomics, Jaguar Doom. Fuck that controller.

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If the difficulty comes from the bad controller and not from the game itself, is the game difficult?

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Memfis said:

Pure mouse is known as "Cervantes" in the demo community (because Cervantes was one-handed I think?). Here is the thread, unfortunately the links are broken though: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-speed-demos/36273-cervantes-mode-episode-runs/

I used to play with mouse only in the mid-90's. It was naive and stupid and it should not be encouraged. I refuse to accept the argument that a wad is good/hard/bad/easy because of a controller method used by the player. If someone enjoys playing doom with their buttcheeks, that's okay, but they don't get to judge wads because they're not compatible with ass input.

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Looper said:

If the difficulty comes from the bad controller and not from the game itself, is the game difficult?


Everything is a factor. Even the speed of your machine, or how much memory it has. The first time I saw Doom was on a 386SX/16, configured in low detail and smallest possible window size. At first I couldn't even tell wtf this game was about. It wasn't until later when I saw it on a 486DX/33 that it looked interesting (and actually playable).

Similar thing happened when I tried Quake Test on my 486DX/33. It was a slideshow... Later on upgraded to a p120 and it ran very smoothly. But I still had problems in net games against players on fast connections. Someone on a T1 had a very clear advantage against modem players. And someone using only keyboard couldn't rocket jump as well as mouse+keyboard user. The really serious players did everything possible to gain any tiny advantage they could, via hardware upgrades, software tweaks, even turning off music and playing in lowest resolution (320x200) just so their machine would process the game faster.

You could say the same thing about playing a combat flight simulator on a low-end machine with keyboard only vs. a beefy box and top-of-the-line joystick. It's the same game, but under different circumstances, which you may or may not have control over. Maybe you can't afford nice machine or joystick. Or maybe there's no way to hook up a keyboard+mouse to a console like Jaguar or SNES and play Doom that way. Or maybe like me, using a mouse simply gets uncomfortable and painful quickly, so keyboard is the best possible solution (it's true; I don't use mice ever for anything else either - just touchpad on my laptop when I can't just simply use CLI or keyboard shortcuts).

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About the PSX version: I actually find it to be one of the easier versions, somehow. Maybe it's because the enemies react slower and your weapons do slightly more damage. I find the PSX control scheme perfectly usable, moreso than pure keyboarding because the function buttons are arranged ergonomically as opposed to being on a device meant for textual communication and not game inputs.

About pure mouse: Also don't find it too difficult, at least in the case of the stock maps in Doom 1. I exclusively use this thing and never any "normal" mice (and have also forced myself to try it left-handed despite being a right-handed guy), so maybe I'm used to what would generally be considered more difficult to use.

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Sodaholic said:

About the PSX version: I actually find it to be one of the easier versions, somehow. Maybe it's because the enemies react slower and your weapons do slightly more damage. I find the PSX control scheme perfectly usable, moreso than pure keyboarding because the function buttons are arranged ergonomically as opposed to being on a device meant for textual communication and not game inputs.


And yet I find a lot of games work incredibly well with keyboard and mouse and absolutely horribly with a pad. As far as PSX Doom goes, even growing up with it, using the pad, I never did have much problem with it...I don't know why, but I usually fail harder at this version of the game. It could be the pad, but it still feels relatively comfortable, I guess because it's quite simple to control, no jumping or looking up and down...something which I have trouble with in modern FPS games on pads, the aiming is way off.

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Sure, gamepads are less efficient compared to M+KB, but I never really understood why it's so bad to most people. In my experience, it's only truly bad if the inputs aren't properly geared towards it. Maybe it's because I started playing FPS games on console before moving onto being a PC exclusive gamer, but I really don't think gamepads are that bad and actually do offer some advantages over traditional M+KB play. One huge advantage is that movement can be done at any speed rather than toggling between usually two speeds (three in rare cases like HL2) and can be done at any angle rather than just 8 degrees of accuracy.

I've gained professional industry experience just for my design insights on FPS gamepad input when they were adding Xinput support to an existing product. After I was done, it's in quite a playable state and feels nice to use, especially for a game that was designed over a decade ago with absolutely no consideration for gamepad input when it was originally released.

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Sodaholic said:

One huge advantage is that movement can be done at any speed rather than toggling between usually two speeds

For this reason, I much prefer playing the 3D GTA games with a 360 controller - It's nice being able to coast along in a vehicle rather than just "go" or "stop". I struggle driving the cars with mouse+kb, but then my aim with the guns suffers, because I dont have the precision of the mouse. It's definitely give and take. For classic style FPS like Doom, I can use a controller, but I prefer the mouse+kb.

This is one reason I prefer GTA 4's gameplay over GTA 5's (on consoles, that is) - The 'lock on' system in 4 works perfectly to counteract the impaired aim of a thumbstick. In GTA 5, I find my aim swaying a lot more because I can't lock on to my opponents. It's made the game a lot more difficult for the wrong reason.. I wish there was some patch or DLC or some shit that could fix this design flaw so I could enjoy the game to its fullest! Normally I would just get the PC version but my rig can't even run Doom 3 so sadly that's out of the question.. (Excuse the digression)

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Pistol start tricks + traps and refueling base.
Ultimate Doom E4M1
Caged/Speed/Tombstone in Plutonia
Scythe 2 Map 23 + 27 grrrrrr

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