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GoatLord

The future of the comminuty

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I'd like to get a bit high concept for a second and speculate on how future developments in computing technology might affect the future of the Doom community. Here are a few speculations.

· Interest in aesthetic improvement reaches its peak and there is little to no new development with mods that expand the game's capabilities.
· Interest in aesthetic improvement continues to increase, resulting in mods that significantly modernize Doom.
· New types of hardware (such as the Occulus Rift) introduce new types of control input.
· Doom becomes playable on a number of increasingly unlikely electronics. Additionally, advances in nanocomputing will eventually allow it to be played on most any surface, even your own skin.
· The new Doom game is a failure, and, similar to Doom 3, fails to generate a community with significant numbers.
· The new doom game is a success and a new era of Doom modding is ushered in.
· Retrospective interest in archaic software (including 2.5d engines) results in a new wave of Doom clones, some of which are directly compatible with Doom, resulting in a new library of assets for modders.
· A new generation that finds interest in the particulars of Doom editing release a wave of mods that are bizarrely removed from what is typically considered Doom.

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GoatLord said:

· A new generation that finds interest in the particulars of Doom editing release a wave of mods that are bizarrely removed from what is typically considered Doom.

This... already happened?

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Don't want to be a killjoy since this is a fine thread, but these are my honest thoughts:

1. I'd say we reached that point a long time ago, the game is still pixellated as shit

2. The opportunity for that appeared ten+ years ago, still hasn't happened

3. There has been enough speculation about Oculus stuff that it's become about 100% less interesting to think about

4. You can already play Doom on your skin or any other surface, just get a projector

5.-6. I wonder what these have to do with the topic at hand

7. There's no way this will ever happen

8. This happens literally all the time

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Hopefully Doom mapping and editing will continue to both provide entertainment (quality mapsets and mods) for the game's enthusiasts, and serve as a training playground for upcoming game designers.

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GoatLord said:

· Interest in aesthetic improvement continues to increase, resulting in mods that significantly modernize Doom.
· New types of hardware (such as the Occulus Rift) introduce new types of control input.
· Doom becomes playable on a number of increasingly unlikely electronics. Additionally, advances in nanocomputing will eventually allow it to be played on most any surface, even your own skin.
· Retrospective interest in archaic software (including 2.5d engines) results in a new wave of Doom clones, some of which are directly compatible with Doom, resulting in a new library of assets for modders.
· A new generation that finds interest in the particulars of Doom editing release a wave of mods that are bizarrely removed from what is typically considered Doom.

All these things are already or have already happened.

GoatLord said:

· The new Doom game is a failure, and, similar to Doom 3, fails to generate a community with significant numbers.
· The new doom game is a success and a new era of Doom modding is ushered in.

Regardless of Doom 4's success I can guarantee you there will not be a big mod community for the game because of the mod tools intense system requirements.
Maybe there will be a multiplayer community for it if the MP is good. But I sincerely doubt there will be a regular mod community around for it. Id Tech 5 is complex and heavy to create with. Two things that Modders hate. There are better options out there then.

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I hope the Doom streaming community grows from strength to strength, now that we have the Twitch team "Ultra Violence" somewhat banding us all together! It might help to bring in some new talent for the future.

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GoatLord said:

· Interest in aesthetic improvement reaches its peak and there is little to no new development with mods that expand the game's capabilities.

"Hey guyz Imma starting a new Hires Doom Project"
"Stop running shit into a filter and calling it a project, also we already have ten thousand dead hires Doom projects, nobody cares."

This happens every other month on Doomworld.

GoatLord said:

· Interest in aesthetic improvement continues to increase, resulting in mods that significantly modernize Doom.

Brutal Doom :p

GoatLord said:

· New types of hardware (such as the Occulus Rift) introduce new types of control input.

There are a few "Doom on the Occulus Rift" ports already.

GoatLord said:

· Doom becomes playable on a number of increasingly unlikely electronics. Additionally, advances in nanocomputing will eventually allow it to be played on most any surface, even your own skin.

You can play Doom on your phone. You can play Doom on music players. You can play Doom on a printer. You can play Doom on a Doom 3 in-game terminal. There used to be a blog named itrunsdoom which was all about people porting Doom to run on unlikely electronics.

GoatLord said:

· Retrospective interest in archaic software (including 2.5d engines) results in a new wave of Doom clones, some of which are directly compatible with Doom, resulting in a new library of assets for modders.

Guess what Urban Brawl, Harmony, Adventures of Square, etc. have in common?

GoatLord said:

· A new generation that finds interest in the particulars of Doom editing release a wave of mods that are bizarrely removed from what is typically considered Doom.

Brutal Doom :p

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Suitepee said:

I hope the Doom streaming community grows from strength to strength, now that we have the Twitch team "Ultra Violence" somewhat banding us all together! It might help to bring in some new talent for the future.


It would be nice to see more people streaming doom wads, like Valiant and the Scythe series.

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It's great that the Doom community is still flourishing to this day. I got into Doom a little late (around 2009), but I'm glad I did because nearly everything about Doom is amazing.

I truly hope future generations will find interest in Doom and keep the community alive.

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I suspect doom will have another renaissance attracting both new and old members to return to the community to play and edit for doom again. I think now that all big games are quickly vanishing into the cloud, and with the success of indie game culture beginning to surface, i feel many gamers will return to something tangible, and retro like doom almost as a form of protest against the megacorporations that are usurping the gaming industry and lumping it with various forms of multimedia entertainment.

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I just hope that Doom continues to live on strongly. And if the new DOOM ends up becoming a commercial success, it could (and more or less inevitably will) introduce the Doom community to new people. Of course it would be up to themselves whether they want to get into classic Doom modding, unless DOOM comes with modding tools, which I highly doubt.

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Sadly it would seem that certain people only got into Doom for BD and these certain people have said they don't ever care for vanilla when minor vanilla mods such as selfie Doom popped up.

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There will always be people inspired to edit Doom simply because of accessibility. The audience will come and go. Source ports and mods will remain personal preference as they've always been.

In the future hipsters will seek out old 486s and drive up their value for the sake of replicating a true elitist retro gaming experience. Bulky slow beige boxes, & CRTs will come back into fashion :P (mostly sarcastic)

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GoatLord said:

Here are a few speculations.

To which I'll add some of my own...

  • A schism will split the comminuty into three warring camps - vanilla purists, advanced port aficionados and the "it's vanilla compatible, I tested it under ZDoom!" crowd.
  • Zenimax will finally crumble under the weight of comminuty expectations and re-license the Doom iwads as public domain, the day after Freedoom version 1.0.0 is released.
  • Once Doom is free to be pre-installed on everything from digital thermometers upwards, the comminuty forums will go into meltdown as throbbing masses of Doom newbs seek an answer to the age old question - "does it run Brutal Doom?".
  • The Terrywads section on /idgames will outgrow the archive and require a server of its own.

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If id really cared about "going oldschool" and beating source ports at their own game, they'd have released a "Boom the way id would have done it" long ago, or at least officially endorsed Boom at some point and use that as a base for any future ports and expansion packs, rather than tired old Linuxdoom v1.10.

Hell, if today they wanted to come closer to the existing Doom community, their best bet would be to create their own backwards-compatible "super Doom", which is unlikely, since they officially haven't touched the classic Doom with a stick for nearly 20 years now, or simply cherry pick one of the major source ports (GZDoom or Eternity, with all probability) and give it a sheen of "officiality".

But we know that is not going to happen: the royalties from the original Doom games are still flowing in and will get milked for all they are worth, and oh boy, did they go a long way! I think Doom has the best ROI of any videogame ever made, ever. Those 2-3 years id spent on developing it sure paid off! Much more expensive and complex games got a full source AND resources release in the meantime, but not Doom.

So, no reason to fix what ain't broken at least from id's POV. Besides, not even the community knows what it wants, so why should they risk trying to appease a bunch of unappeasable nerds like us? :-p

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telefragged will finally shit the bed. Doomworld will be rehoused on secret servers and oldfags will grow leery within its hidden corridors. Doomplanet will rise from the ashes and draw the stinking masses of n00bs into its wet, clammy ovarium. Brick by brick is the temple of autism built higher as the years tick ever onwards; retards battle and claw at each other for superiority, never thinking that their true Lords watch and wait from afar, growing ever fatter, gnawing upon their crusty gussets whilst suckling brine from teats of utter hated. The dam will break; Oldfags will flood forth in a ravening tide of destruction. The halls of the False Doomplanet will run with red and I will wash my cock in the blood of virgins.

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If Zenimax, er um I mean iD did endorse a particular source port over another it would cause an infantile shitfit.

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Well, the Doom we all know and love won't go anywhere any time soon. I just hope the multiplayer community doesn't die (it's lasted this long!)

I personally am stoked to play Doom on Oculus Rift though, that seemed awesome based on that one youtube video I saw. I'm also hesitantly excited for Doom 4.

Also, what 40oz said.

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SYS said:

If Zenimax, er um I mean iD did endorse a particular source port over another it would cause an infantile shitfit.

Like a larger version of what happened when we released SVE? Some of the first posts to the Steam forums were angry kiddies demanding that Night Dive Studios throw out our four months' of work and replace the engine with GZDoom so that they could play Brutal Strife.

Of course they were quickly shot down by a tide of reasonable people who first off noted that you can't use GZDoom in a commercial game release.

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SYS said:

If Zenimax, er um I mean iD did endorse a particular source port over another it would cause an infantile shitfit.

I'm confident Zenimax hates the fact that the original source code for their recently acquired IPs are GPL.

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Zenimax is fine with the Doom source code being GPL because it has zero commercial value in any event. The IWADs *do* have commercial value, however, so they will never be freeware.

SYS said:

If Zenimax, er um I mean iD did endorse a particular source port over another it would cause an infantile shitfit.

Doom on iOS used PrBoom as a base, so it was literally id Software approved: https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM-iOS

Otherwise, there *is* a "modern" Doom source port that id endorses: that terrible Doom Classic one from the Doom 3 BFG Edition.

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The future of Doom is like Pac-Man. Everyone recognizes it, because it's a legendary icon, but not that many play it regularly. It's still fun to play though, just feels very retro compared to modern games. Over the years they made different games based on Pac-Man, like these:
http://hol.abime.net/1004
http://hol.abime.net/1003
(btw, Pac-Mania is really fun, try it...)
There will probably be fancy VR headset versions, and hologram versions, and who knows what else... But the original game will probably be relegated to be just another iconic arcade game to include in compilations like they do these days for old 80's arcade games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_Museum

People will also continue to port Doom to every device and system ever made, just like they port Space Invaders and other stuff like that. Eventually it will be implemented in many other languages rather than just C, maybe because C falls out of favor and is replaced by other stuff.

The IWAD will become public domain like 95 years (or probably more) after the original id crew is dead. But that doesn't matter so much because people can always play the shareware episode and do whatever they want with Freedoom-based stuff.

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hex11 said:

The future of Doom is like Pac-Man.

But what about Doom's enthusiastic and still active mapping and modding *comminuty*?

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I think Doom has the best ROI of any videogame ever made, ever.


But meas lol, what about Minecraft? 2 billions for one guy's hobby project coded in his bedroom is a pretty sweet deal. Granted, given Sweden's taxes the man must have ended up with sixteen dollars and a half.

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Basically as Greyghost was saying... almost nobody knows how to make vanilla stuff anymore, most new things target latest advanced engine, with lots of dependency and compatibility problems in the long run. Vanilla (or limit-removing) stuff will continue to be playable on just about any port, as it's the baseline that maps directly to the original, iconic, legendary game.

Look at 4chan /vr/ Doom General thread for idea of the future modding community. Unlike other threads on /vr/, they almost never talk about the original game for the given thread topic, it's always GZDoom and Brutal Doom or other latest mods. And when they say "vanilla" they don't even mean doom.exe or chocolate-doom but something vague like simply anything made using Doom Builder Doom-in-Doom format, rather than meaning a specific version of Doom. There's a lot of confusion and chaos...

But I don't really care. None of that interests me. It doesn't lead to maps I want to play. Even limit-removing stuff isn't ideal IMO, because it tends to emphasize so much useless details (or rather it doesn't force the mapper to curtail such unnecessary details).

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Removing the limits isn't just about unnecessary details. You can make a really barebones map that will crash the vanilla engine, simply because it's too open.

More possibilities mean that some people will drown in them and won't be able to emphasize the important things. But they also mean, well, more possibilities, more creative freedom for people who know what they're doing.

Although something tells me it was discussed to death already.

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I think most of the good limit-removing non-slaughter maps, in this community anyway, use limit-removing as a fail-safe rather than a crutch. An otherwise perfect map crashing because of a visplane overflow is a damn shame.

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I'm not sure how much overlap there is between the active community here and the active community at 4chan, but I were to venture a guess, I would say it is small. In most of the rest of the community, I think there is a pretty clear distinction between purist-like stuff that most of us here like and the bloom.

hex11 said:

Basically as Greyghost was saying... almost nobody knows how to make vanilla stuff anymore, most new things target latest advanced engine, with lots of dependency and compatibility problems in the long run. Vanilla (or limit-removing) stuff will continue to be playable on just about any port, as it's the baseline that maps directly to the original, iconic, legendary game.

Look at 4chan /vr/ Doom General thread for idea of the future modding community. Unlike other threads on /vr/, they almost never talk about the original game for the given thread topic, it's always GZDoom and Brutal Doom or other latest mods. And when they say "vanilla" they don't even mean doom.exe or chocolate-doom but something vague like simply anything made using Doom Builder Doom-in-Doom format, rather than meaning a specific version of Doom. There's a lot of confusion and chaos...

But I don't really care. None of that interests me. It doesn't lead to maps I want to play. Even limit-removing stuff isn't ideal IMO, because it tends to emphasize so much useless details (or rather it doesn't force the mapper to curtail such unnecessary details).

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