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GoatLord

Quick thought on existence

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This isn't me speaking as if I held any kind of objective truth; just some late night "what ifs."

If consciousness is a form of emergent phenomenon (like the way the perception of solid or liquid requires a large number of atoms to emerge), then a "universe creator" or god may result from a large amount of consciousness manipulating a sufficiently dense clump of matter, or possibly itself, initiating a random equation that manifests itself as a universe with an arbitrary set of laws.

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GoatLord said:

consciousness manipulating a sufficiently dense clump of matter

Thought cannot manipulate matter.

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In order to answer your question, I first need to understand the question. I can tell this train of thought requires some LSD.

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GoatLord said:

stuff


Record this with a stoner/psychedelic rock soundtrack, add some heavy reverb and you're golden.

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Quast said:

Thought cannot manipulate matter.


It could, if dark matter was the telekinetic sum of all living things' inherent will to survive, thereby keeping the universe from collapsing in on itself.

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GoatLord said:

then a "universe creator" or god may result from a large amount of consciousness

Considering this "universe creator" created everything in the universe, there shouldn't be consciousness before its existence.

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darknation said:

Now, move past it.

And heal.

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GoatLord said:

If consciousness is a form of emergent phenomenon (like the way the perception of solid or liquid requires a large number of atoms to emerge), then a "universe creator" or god may result from a large amount of consciousness manipulating a sufficiently dense clump of matter, or possibly itself, initiating a random equation that manifests itself as a universe with an arbitrary set of laws.

I cannot see how #2 would be true - it creates a paradox of cause and consequence. Therefore it's either:

True => False. The implication as a whole is False.
False => False. The implication as a whole is (vacuously) True. :)

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I haven't smoked pot in a few months now, and it's been nearly a year since I last dropped acid.

I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, just a fact. I'm not jonesing for an acid trip, but the occasional bong would be nice.. Ganja is in short supply in Melbourne at the moment.

Edit: Regarding the original topic, I think god/satan is merely a continually mistranslated metaphor for the sun and moon. One brings light, life, food, the other brings darkness, risk and confusion. There's nothing wrong with thinking on these things and theorizing, though. Just don't let an appealing, romantic view overshadow science/reason. That's the best comment I can make about this kind of stuff ah reckon.

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In the Multiverse there's a universe where God is a Lion, and the battle of good and evil rests on the shoulders of a couple of British teens.

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Quast said:

Thought cannot manipulate matter.

Technically though, thought is matter. Or at least, your brain is.

Everything you do happens thanks to salt and zappy electro thingies in your brain.

Thank you, salt.

Thank you, electrocity.

Anyways, the "the universe itself is god" concept is neat anyways and I actually had the idea of using it in the plot of something someday.

Like an Eldrich Abomination concept almost, but not having been run into the ground.

Thanks, internet.

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glenzinho said:

Trying too hard.


Trying too hard to what?

Also, I realize that causality is a problem here. However, quantum fluctuations produce particles, even in so-called vacuums. That's pretty weird, because it implies that an empty universe would still spontaneously produce matter and energy, with a sufficient amount causing its gravity to compact into a sense nugget they explodes into a universe.

So if quantum fluctuations can produce the energy to generate a universe whether there was preexisting matter of not, then a "first cause" becomes unnecessary. Of course, then you have the problem of why quantum fluctuations exist. If they exist because of perturbations in one-dimensional strings, then one is forced to question the origin of the strings. It may involve infinite regression--which would violate the granular picture of the universe, in which there is literally a limit to physical size--or it may involve a circular notion of entropy, in which order (a highly compact nugget of energy) and disorder (spread out matter that complicates into a variety of structures) are forever oscillating.

As for consciousness not being able to manipulate matter, I would argue that the primary effect consciousness has on reality is its tendency to manipulate matter. Conscious beings constantly manipulate matter, whether by the movements of the body or things that are crafted by their hands. Consciousness also manipulates the matter that consciousness manifests from, because our thoughts literally change the topography of our brains due to the observable changes they make to our brain wrinkles and neural networks. I suspect a sufficiently powerful consciousness would eventually be able to exist as energy devoid of matter, which can use some of this energy to do novel things, such as using itself to convert some of its energy into matter, and with enough matter initiate an inflationary expansion sequence.

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Marnetmar said:

have you been doing dmt again


Not in a few weeks. Last one was an extended trip that was mostly forgotten, due to the extreme dosage (it can cause amnesia similar to when a dream is forgotten upon waking). I mostly recall being shot through an ornate Fibonacci spiral tunnel decorated with Baroque era ornamentation, as well as being sprayed with chronologically altered light emissions from every corner of the room, which had become alive in an insect-type manner.

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If you want to ask a question, just do so. I'll be happy to elaborate on whatever I can.

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GoatLord said:

If you want to ask a question, just do so.


If today is tomorrow, and tomorrow is purple, what color is Wednesday?

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GoatLord said:

[...]a sense nugget they explodes into a universe.

Best sentence I've read all week, hands down. "Sense nugget" is my new favorite anatomical euphemism.

I suspect a sufficiently powerful consciousness would eventually be able to exist as energy devoid of matter,

On what basis do you suspect this (I'm genuinely curious)? What makes some hypothetical consciousness "more powerful" than another in such a way?

Also, are you referring to energy in the technical sense as the term is applied to actual physics? Or are you speaking in the lazy-physics sense (i.e. conflating "massless particles" with "energy devoid of matter"), or simply in the sense that sci-fi writers and armchair philosophers speak when they want to imagine some vague cosmic "stuff" that can magically do anything?

In other news, I find it increasingly difficult to distinguish between a GoatLord attempting to start a serious discussion vs. a GoatLord trolling EE readers via some odd form of self-parody.

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