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pablogener

How's 'Hatred' any worse than the 'Carmageddon remake'

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Double-standards blown away, crushed and damned to hell after seeing the trailer, with the gratuitous "Ped Chase" clip, where you see free violence, no worse than the much controverted "Hatred" game, being distributed by the same platform, "Steam".
How can "Hatred" be any worse than, say "Postal 1/2", or either this carmaggedon game?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/249380/

not much else to add.

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In the hatred thread most people agreed that its more of a publicity stunt than actual morally offensive. So I don't know who you're trying to prove this to.

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Posts I've seen expressing outrage about Hatred: 0
Posts I've seen complaining about the outrage: 283474

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I'm starting to figure out why usually mostly nobody answers my posts, or communicates with me for that matter... it's because my contributions are utter rubbish.
got it! :D

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Bucket said:

Posts I've seen expressing outrage about Hatred: 0
Posts I've seen complaining about the outrage: 283474


Welcome to the Internet... we have nothing to talk about but outraged people are about something we're not outraged about.

No one plays the games. They just talk about them. Like the Order 1886's time... after the game's out no one talks about it. Evolve's DLC... now that the game is out, no one talks about it. The new thing seems to be Lara Croft wearing shorts in the snow... or Sonic's legs are too long.

I think the only game that came out that people talked about was Depression Quest and that wasn't even talking about the game, just the developer. Same with Paranautical Activity. Game comes out, talk about the developer, not how awful the game is.

I'm getting sick of people not talking about the game, just the developers and publishers.

Evolve is a fucking boringly dull game. I have this feeling Hatred will be more fun, even if it wasn't a "murder simulator."

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I've read what the developers said about the game, particularly how the world isn't ready for it or some such nonsense. It strikes the same chord in me as claims of things "the government doesn't want you to know about" - that is, my bullshit detector.

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Not sure what to say other than this carmageddon literally looks like a shitty, decade old straight to bargain bin ps2 game.

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Clonehunter said:

Yah, without an Iron Maiden soundtrack it probably would be shit. Too bad it looks fun.


Back the fuck up, it still has Fear Factory, which more or less was the signature band for Carmageddon. I've been checking it for a few months now (mostly the dev videos and streams) and it looks pretty great. Not BeamNG amazing, but still pretty damn good.

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Like the Order 1886's time... after the game's out no one talks about it.


There's not much to say about it. It's an exclusive for a new gen console, that limits the pool of players. I watched a playthrough on Youtube and it's a bog standard Uncharted-like, perhaps with a bigger ratio of cutscenes over gameplay. Predictable Hollywood story with telegraphed big twists - you figure out who's the traitor within the first minutes, then you're only confused about it because he takes so long to act and the way he goes about it is completely nonsensical. Jerky NPC animations in gameplay. Some godawful QTEs, the lycan fights are especially embarrassing, with the backdrop switching but each character coming back to the exact same position. Using 3D models, it seems to me they could have moved the perspective with each transition so it doesn't look so jarringly identical...

The discussion around contemptuous statements from the devs was the only thing to make this game a headline. Otherwise, it's average to the point of being instantly forgettable. Yes, it looks very good. So did the Uncharteds, Last of Us, and all similar derivatives. So in that sense it's average too.

About the only thing that was remotely cool about it is that they sort of went for the repressed victorian era vibe, for a while; but then they threw it all out of the window when the death of a friendly NPC which you totally didn't see coming as he told you about this important thing we will discuss later right after this very dangerous mission prompts our "hero" to go into full angry murderous mode, with lots of yelling... as usual.

At least it didn't include crafting or RPG elements. Bonus points for that. Oh and the Indian queen looks hawt.

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Quast said:

Not sure what to say other than this carmageddon literally looks like a shitty, decade old straight to bargain bin ps2 game.


Reincarnation is fucking excellent, exactly what I want out of a modern Carma game.

I think the difference between Hatred and Carma is that Carma does everything with a huge dollop of tongue in cheek humour, and hatred... doesn't. Same with Postal, the game was pretty much screaming "THIS IS IN NO WAY SERIOUS JUST RUN WITH IT". ("It" being a pair of scissors)

Hatred doesn't have that and comes across as callous and so people dislike it.

Carmaageddon is straight up awesome though, been playing it a lot since the beta launched and it's a really damn good game. Great fun in MP too.

Platinum Shell said:

I've been checking it for a few months now (mostly the dev videos and streams) and it looks pretty great. Not BeamNG amazing, but still pretty damn good.


It's kind of hard to draw any kind of comparison between BeamNG and Carmageddon, other than you drive cars which can get damaged. They're kinda totally different. Carmageddon is at it's core a combat game.

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AirRaid pretty much nailed it. Hatred is about relentlessly and graphically murdering everyone without a hint of irony or humor, whereas Postal and Carmageddon are just being over-the-top silly and facetious about it. Simple as that.

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Mr. Freeze said:

by the devs

lol

AirRaid said:

I think the difference between Hatred and Carma is that Carma does everything with a huge dollop of tongue in cheek humour, and hatred... doesn't. Same with Postal, the game was pretty much screaming "THIS IS IN NO WAY SERIOUS JUST RUN WITH IT". ("It" being a pair of scissors)

Exactly my opinion too (see my post from the last thread about this game). Tone makes a lot of difference in these situations - there's a big difference between a game intended to be humorous, and intentionally designed that way with some thought put into it, and another game made by a bunch of neo-nazis developers, who if they're laughing at all are probably doing it through beared teeth.

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How much proof is there of them being neo-nazis? I know they've had some (mild?) association with some groups alleged to be neo-nazis or otherwise extreme right-wing in nature, but I know nothing about these groups, the extent of the devs' involvement, or whether people jumped to incorrect conclusions about these groups.

Yeah, I'm too lazy to bother researching about the groups myself. It's just that I'm skeptical, as the internet can tend to be a bit of an echo chamber where incorrect but "catchy" info is copied without confirmation, taken as assumed fact.

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fraggle said:

For one thing it's made by Neo-Nazis


They're not, and even if they are, the game has shown zero racist messages. You literally kill everyone. If they are Neo-Nazis they've made a very fair and equal game!

The creator of Earthworm Jim is a raging bigot, and Phil Fish is an absolute dickhead. But their games are good! That's only a couple examples. If they don't contain the backwards personal views of the creator I don't see the issue.

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Sodaholic said:

How much proof is there of them being neo-nazis? I know they've had some (mild?) association with some groups alleged to be neo-nazis or otherwise extreme right-wing in nature, but I know nothing about these groups, the extent of the devs' involvement, or whether people jumped to incorrect conclusions about these groups.

Original accusations are here, and you can read the response by the developers as well. It seems like they only responded to some of the accusations, and the explanations they provide seem like rather tenuous excuses to me.

Cyanosis said:

They're not, and even if they are, the game has shown zero racist messages. You literally kill everyone. If they are Neo-Nazis they've made a very fair and equal game!

The creator of Earthworm Jim is a raging bigot, and Phil Fish is an absolute dickhead. But their games are good! That's only a couple examples. If they don't contain the backwards personal views of the creator I don't see the issue.

Can't say I'm a fan of either of those developers or their games either. But I think it's deeply naive to be deliberately ignoring the context of something like this. If they're neo-nazis then sure, they're making a deliberate attempt to put a veil over their opinions - and for obvious reasons. It just makes me very uncomfortable because there's a lot of similarity between the tone and design of the game (about a man on a "genocide crusade") and the typical attitude associated with neo-nazi extremist groups.

The evidence that those are exactly the kind of political opinions that the developers hold looks pretty damning. Even if there isn't overt neo-Nazi stuff in the game it makes me uncomfortable enough that I wouldn't want to play it (and certainly not buy it).

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I don't think they're neo-nazi, I haven't seen anything damning enough yet. However there's clearly enough evidence to safely assume they're bigoted, misogynist, racist, deeply xenophobic Polish nationalists with a very poor sense of humour and an unhealthy fetish for Gamergate and WW2 Wehrmacht.

And that's different. Heh.

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dew said:

I don't think they're neo-nazi, I haven't seen anything damning enough yet. However there's clearly enough evidence to safely assume they're bigoted, misogynist, racist, deeply xenophobic Polish nationalists with a very poor sense of humour and an unhealthy fetish for Gamergate and WW2 Wehrmacht.


Dewdie has good point. Comparing Carmageddon to this? Even bringing Postal into it!? All of those games are on different levels.

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AirRaid said:

It's kind of hard to draw any kind of comparison between BeamNG and Carmageddon, other than you drive cars which can get damaged. They're kinda totally different. Carmageddon is at it's core a combat game.


Under the hood, yes, soft bodied physics versus emulating soft bodied physics...the end result (visually) is in the same general ballpark. I mean, I'm not comparing a snowboarding game to an RPG.

That said, it's another incentive to get a GTX 980...

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Cyanosis said:

The creator of Earthworm Jim is a raging bigot, and Phil Fish is an absolute dickhead. But their games are good! That's only a couple examples. If they don't contain the backwards personal views of the creator I don't see the issue.

Doug TenNapel? All what I have heard is that he is deeply against gay marriages (and he's Christian), but not against gays in general. Guess I'll have to search about that more...

And Fraggle: That's like your opinion.
I do not condemn people for their opinions and statements. What they do to other people, or what they decide to do, matters me.

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CorSair said:

I do not condemn people for their opinions and statements. What they do to other people, or what they decide to do, matters me.

That doesn't sound very progressive.

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No reason to hold back anymore. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you've continued to fail at being logical and credible on this one particular issue, so here goes:

fraggle said:

Original accusations are here

Yes, I've already seen that article when it was newly published. I asked for a source that shows credible evidence that they're neo-nazis, wild accusations and exaggerations from cursory observations is not credible evidence. I'm sure those groups they endorse aren't saintly, but there's probably far more nuance than the author is letting on. I get the feeling he knows about as little of those groups than I do, and jumps to conclusions based on confirmation bias.

I've not seen any other source than that reactionary garbage to even remotely prove that viewpoint. Don't get me wrong, they're obviously right-wing bigots and I don't like that about them, but being merely xenophobic is hardly the same thing as being a fullblown neo-nazi.

Furthermore, they claimed that the game's original trailer depicted the character primarily targeting women and minorities. That's just flat-out wrong. The dialog clearly indicated that he hated humanity in general, and he killed quite a variety of people. That they somehow (selectively) misinterpreted it as targeting specific groups of people makes me doubt their motives and perspective very much.

fraggle said:

and you can read the response by the developers as well. It seems like they only responded to some of the accusations, and the explanations they provide seem like rather tenuous excuses to me.

If that one guy was lying about his family members being killed by Gestapo, shame on him, but I'm willing to believe that it's true as people don't just make that shit up unless they're serious, and I mean SERIOUS scum. How dare you call that a "tenuous excuse"? They flat out said they hate nazism and have been directly negatively impacted by it, to the extent of losing loved ones. Politics is a complex, multifaceted spectrum, and they're certainly on the uglier side of it, but for fuck's sake, there is ZERO credible evidence that they're that far gone, especially when their own families have suffered at the hands of such total extremists.

fraggle said:

It just makes me very uncomfortable because there's a lot of similarity between the tone and design of the game (about a man on a "genocide crusade") and the typical attitude associated with neo-nazi extremist groups.

"Genocide" can mean general mass-killings despite its etymology. Just like how "decimate" actually meant to eliminate the weakest 10% of your army on a routine basis in ancient Rome, but nobody uses the term like that anymore.

fraggle said:

The evidence that those are exactly the kind of political opinions that the developers hold looks pretty damning.

"Exactly"? Since when have they called for the targeted capture, slave labor and killing of an entire religion/ethnic group? Since when have they called for "taking back land that totally belongs to us"? They're right-wing scum for sure and I don't like them either, but for the last damn time, I've seen no evidence that they're that extreme. Even evil has standards, to quote a trope, and they're more assholes than truly evil. Even actual killer groups in the middle east have denounced the more extreme actions of groups like ISIS.

What the fuck, Fraggle? I thought you were better than this, more rational and objective. You otherwise seem to be, but I swear you're full of shit on this particular "neo-nazi" accusation. Actual neo-nazis are scum, and grouping more general right-wing stuff in is not only disingenuous as painting "politically incorrect" views as thought-crime, but also diminishes the severity and gravity that actual nazis believe and act.

Unless you can bring some real evidence to the table and not just some asshurt SJW's oversensitive misrepresentation, you're simply incorrect.

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fraggle said:

Original accusations are here, and you can read the response by the developers as well. It seems like they only responded to some of the accusations, and the explanations they provide seem like rather tenuous excuses to me.

Well with your incredibly open-minded mindset, nothing they say will satisfy you. Congrats!

fraggle said:

It just makes me very uncomfortable because there's a lot of similarity between the tone and design of the game (about a man on a "genocide crusade") and the typical attitude associated with neo-nazi extremist groups.

Not Important's mission is to kill literally *everyone*. It's a broad genocide, but it still applies.

I'm hearing a lot of "ifs" on your end. Do you have any solid proof that they are Neo Nazis? Any at all?

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Sodaholic said:

No reason to hold back anymore. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you've continued to fail at being logical and credible

Unless you can bring some real evidence to the table and not just some asshurt SJW's oversensitive misrepresentation, you're simply incorrect.

Mr. Freeze said:

Well with your incredibly open-minded mindset, nothing they say will satisfy you. Congrats!


Not Important's mission is to kill literally *everyone*. It's a broad genocide, but it still applies.

I'm hearing a lot of "ifs" on your end. Do you have any solid proof that they are Neo Nazis? Any at all?


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Sodaholic said:

Unless you can bring some real evidence to the table

I have. It may be you don't like the source of it, but it's evidence nonetheless. If it was just one developer who had "Liked" something unpleasant on Facebook then I could accept maybe it didn't mean anything, but *four* of the team members are all associated with right wing groups. One of them even designs neo-nazi tattoos (I notice they never responded to that one, because what could they have even said to defend it?)

I really don't get why you're so desperate to defend these guys and believe everything they say. Be open-minded, sure - just don't be so "open-minded" that your brain falls out.

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Sodaholic said:

"Genocide" can mean general mass-killings despite its etymology. Just like how "decimate" actually meant to eliminate the weakest 10% of your army on a routine basis in ancient Rome, but nobody uses the term like that anymore.

Do you base your word understanding on video game achievements?

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