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andrewj

Small update to OBLIGE

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I have just released version 6.20 of OBLIGE, a random level generator for classic DOOM games.

Changes include some basic monster closets, diagonal walls were re-implemented, a module to disable monsters in the start room, finer grained control over many settings, a way to set the random seed, plus several bug fixes.

Link: http://oblige.sourceforge.net/

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yay monster closets :)

Nice work Andrewj, good to see you're still working on this!

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40oz said:

yay monster closets :)

Nice work Andrewj, good to see you're still working on this!


He's also working on V7, which has teleport traps as well, which was a feature from OBLIGE 0.85 brought back.

I can't wait to see what is in store for the next iteration of it when available.

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BTW, anyone having trouble accessing the Oblige forum?

I keep getting a blank page. This was happening intermittently before, but now it seems permanent. Feels like the problem is on my end (and not SourceForge as I originally assumed).

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I had some good fun with this just now. It would be nice if a plasma rifle or a rocket launcher even would appear though next to the spidey/cyber spawns. I fought a few of them with only an SSG and a Chaingun :P

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andrewj said:

BTW, anyone having trouble accessing the Oblige forum?

I keep getting a blank page. This was happening intermittently before, but now it seems permanent. Feels like the problem is on my end (and not SourceForge as I originally assumed).


It seems to be working as of 1:50 AM EST/-5 GMT. Might be Sourceforge fucking up as usual.

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BlackFish said:

It would be nice if a plasma rifle or a rocket launcher even would appear though next to the spidey/cyber spawns. I fought a few of them with only an SSG and a Chaingun :P

Ahhh, I knew there was something else I needed to fix in 6.20 ^_^

Will make sure it is a high priority for future releases.

Thanks Glaice for checking, I'm fairly sure it is not SourceForge this time (or the forum software) but some issue on my end (potentially even my ISP). Tried a bunch of browsers, all do the same (completely blank page, 0 bytes transferred).

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Today I played around 8 hours of Oblige with Brutal Doom today. Oblige is just as awesome as ever only punctuated by Brutal Doom.

One thing I noticed is that heaps of other marines teleport between stages, which is cool, its good they can come along, but before too long, two turned into a dozen, turned into a hundred. The field of view was nothing and there just wasn't enough enemies on "normal" to compensate.

The problem is heaps of marines always seem to generate a greater ratio of marines to enemies. The plenty option generates two or so per level. Which is fine for plenty. I think there should be a point between the two.

I also noticed that having the Doom skybox checked made the exteriors super dark.

The rocky landscapes were really a favorite part of Oblige maps for me. The sidewalk / street hallways were not. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a hallway that has two raised edges, I just think it loses distinction when I see it.

The monster closets were fun, sometimes it had marines inside!

3D floors also really enhanced things. Going beneath and finding a tunnel to a door is always something fresh. Some of the monster closets on the 3D platforms turn into a sort of fireman's pole to get down.

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I will reduce the amount of Marines for the "Heaps" setting.

When OBLIGE makes a night sky image, then outdoors are often dark (they are occasionally dark without a night sky). OpenGL ports are often darker than software ports. Plus there are few light sources (lamps etc) placed outside at the moment.

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andrewj said:

I will reduce the amount of Marines for the "Heaps" setting.

When OBLIGE makes a night sky image, then outdoors are often dark (they are occasionally dark without a night sky). OpenGL ports are often darker than software ports. Plus there are few light sources (lamps etc) placed outside at the moment.


Thank you for the heaps. I did notice a few light things outside. I haven't noticed many things / objects in general while playing.

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Yes there is no proper logic for placing decorative prefabs or objects yet (the crates and occasional lamp or barrels are a temporary hack).

BTW dark outdoors can be controlled in the Level Control module.

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Back to playing with marines, when its on plenty of marines by the 4th or 5th level I have a dozen and they're unstopable. I think after that their numbers get ludicrous where it turns into the same problem as heaps, where there are 10 marines for every 1 enemy.

One thing that I've been noticing is most maps have a chrachendo. They start with less enemies and build to wall to wall enemies on normal monsters / normal strength.

My perfect sweet spot seems to be everything on normal. Level size episodic, with scarce marines.

One odd glitch I did find seemed like an invisible enemy that kept shooting me even when I cowered in a corner under a 3D platform with no enemies in the room. That could be a Brutal Doom / GZDoom issue. I don't have stealth enemies on. In hind sight it might have been a cage where instead of a cage it had a wall texture or a monster closet enemy could have been trapped in a door. I've seen that happen.

It happened during a Wolfenstien map and I heard the shushaffa, but I never saw the Wolfenstien soldiers.

I did find a shallow pool of water with no platform out of. I could jump out, but I prefer playing vanilla without jump.

There are cool things in different maps such as falling into a water pit had a door into a room that started you under a 3D platform. I really like that sort of stuff.

Have you given any thought to having a switch lower a liquid in order to reveal a door or hidden room? Even giant sewer pipe hallways to walk through would be nice. With all of the "sidewalk hallways" I think a good way to justify the sidewalk would be to have a liquid running through it rather than a carpet. Maybe that is done in some maps and I just haven't seen it yet.

I played some psychedelic maps and wow the texturing throws me off. I do like the fire doors, but I think its just odd seeing a fire rise up rather than having to jump through it, but I know its not what the texture was designed to do. Having a crate lift was interesting too.

Have you thought about fireplaces for the urban or hell? Even the monster closets? Like yay you've freed the demons from their fire filled monster closet and now to thank you, they're out to kill you.

Again, I'm really enjoying Oblige.

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geo: If you want more out of 6.20, check my modifications here.

And off topicly regarding Sourceforge, I can't log into the Oblige forum even tho I'm logged in on Sourceforge's page and the recovery email (which is my SF email I registered with) doesn't work, I may have used an address I closed recently (Hotmail?) for the forum.

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What are the chances of Oblige getting a PSX Doom configuration (i.e. colored light sectors, possibly level limitations a'la PSX Doom TC) to create wads that are optimized to be run with the TC itself?

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Glaice said:

geo: If you want more out of 6.20, check my modifications here.

And off topicly regarding Sourceforge, I can't log into the Oblige forum even tho I'm logged in on Sourceforge's page and the recovery email (which is my SF email I registered with) doesn't work, I may have used an address I closed recently (Hotmail?) for the forum.


After my latest death to a railgun sniper its time to give yours a try. The railgunner shot me first so I knew he existed, then I lived in fear of him and the open area that he could just sniper me in.

What folder do I dump these in? I put them in scripts.

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Ah Oblige is a ton of fun.

It lets me live out the dream of playing DooM like a roguelike. Nothing more fun than generating a random map and trying to survive, and if I die, generate a new one.

It can be fun with Brutal DooM as well if I'm in the mood.

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potnop said:

Ah Oblige is a ton of fun.

It lets me live out the dream of playing DooM like a roguelike. Nothing more fun than generating a random map and trying to survive, and if I die, generate a new one.

It can be fun with Brutal DooM as well if I'm in the mood.


I'm finding grenades are the most fun with Oblige.

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Linguica said:

I know a forum you could use...

Fuck that, let's have Oblige generate it's own forum

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SlashBane said:

Fuck that, let's have Oblige generate it's own forum


lol.

I'm still playing Oblige almost nonstop. I die... generate a new 32. Is there a way I can just batch file this all? I know there is or was batch file support for Oblige.

I had 3 lives ended in a row in 3 different generated games due to railgun. See I would just disable it, but I want to face a bully. Stand up to that bully.

There are subtleties that I think that the real Doom games have that Oblige is missing...

- Dropping into hallways instead of walking into them. Think Doom 2M2.
- Enemies on top of platforms that have switches to lower the platform to collect the items from the dead enemies.
- Rooms in rooms that have massive openings such as E1M1 Like 3 walls instead of 4 with a door.
- Smaller doors for areas off the beaten path. I don't mean required doors, because it would be a pain to find a small door.
- Behind the scenes doors that can bring you into the cages. Not every cage of course.
- Staircases in hallways
- Traditional exit rooms and exit holes in Hell. I do think your exit boxes are pretty unique. Perhaps that would be problematic having small doors to exits and finding them would become an issue.
- Lit structures outside. Goggles in dark areas. The first time I Obliged I found goggles in a dark area and I thought wow this system is so smart. I haven't seen it since. Although I did see in another forum thread someone complaining they're useless... yeah until the outside is dark.

Its an amazing system, but like anything amazing, I will always want more and more from it.

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Development is now concentrated on V7, a quite different method of generating levels. There won't be any support for other games until V7 has matured, which won't be anytime soon....

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andrewj said:

Development is now concentrated on V7, a quite different method of generating levels. There won't be any support for other games until V7 has matured, which won't be anytime soon....


Someone on a Quake forum can make their own generator :-)

I've had to stop doing the skyboxes. Even with gamma correction, they're just so dark. I do have to admit though the night battles with plasma rifles, cacos and torches do look pretty cool.

Most of the time I need to use the map to find my way around. Although its interesting being low health and hearing the hum of a marine chainsaw out in the darkness.

In the first level there doesn't seem to be armor from the start, so until I get the armor, the levels feel more difficult.

I found my first secret! A soulsphere in a building within an exterior. I had to hump walls to find the passage.

I've made it through a few levels with mosters on nuts with easier strength and more health / ammo and weapons.

OMG a non official release for Oblige 6.22 I'm happy to have it! I'll give it a try.

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After playing a few levels of Oblige on default health / default weapons with everything else default on Ultra Violence, I have to say there needs to be more health. It feels very realistic with the bare minimum of health and zero armor.

The rooms look far more interesting and unique. Roof holes, acid floors. Rooms with odd shapes. Bigger rooms, large arenas, but nothing small. I don't think I've even found a hallway yet.

These rooms feel almost unpredictable in a good way. Like before I knew there would always be a cave here or there. There would always be an outdoor casm, there would always be a tall tiered area indoors or outdoors.

The only 2 issues that I've found in both 6.22 and 6.20 are rare instances of keys being right next to a door. The next issue I think is a limitation with the 3D platforms. when there is a lift underneath of a 3D platform, the platform above the lift has a lift sized hole cut into it. Nothing game breaking, but it happens.

Maybe a third issue is a teleporter right in front of a door, making it difficult, but not impossible to get into the door.

A few of the maps make me think never have I seen so much silver and gray!

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My primary issue is that it's difficult to emulate "real Doom" item and enemy placement. That takes me out of the mindset that I'm playing something that could be mistaken for human-made faster than anything. Numerous combinations of settings just can't strike the right balance. I can clarify further if you'd like more specifics for feedback.

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Holy shit, this is probably the best version of Oblige I've tried yet! Really digging the monster closets and diagonal walls. The night maps are pretty nice, too. There needs to be greater light variance in them, but I see that's already being worked on.

I do have a question: would it be possible to create theme sets that recreate popular wads or at least use their texture set, like Momenti Mori? Not sure that's feasible, but it's the only thing "missing" from Oblige that I can think of. Or maybe just an easy way to drop a custom texture set in there?

Edit:
Would it be possible for Oblige to generate a dehacked or mapinfo lump with the map names it generates?

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Oblige generates a dehacked lump with map names when the Engine setting is BOOM or anything boom-compatible.

Completely new themes are quite hard to create. Eventually I hope to document the process.

Now excuse me if I disappear into a bunker and don't emerge until V7 has reached a usable state.

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andrewj said:

Oblige generates a dehacked lump with map names when the Engine setting is BOOM or anything boom-compatible.

Completely new themes are quite hard to create. Eventually I hope to document the process.

Now excuse me if I disappear into a bunker and don't emerge until V7 has reached a usable state.


Bring a pistol. You never know when you'll hear infighting.

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