April Agitation: the megathread

[AD_79]

Pure Hellspawn said:

My guess? Doom 2 is out after this round. Map29 may have a chance. Maybe.

Map 11 is against E4M6
Map 29 is against E4M2

PROTIP: If this happens, vote for the Doom 2 maps.

IMO MAP11 and MAP29 are the best Doom maps created by id.

[baja blast rd.]

E4M6 is like a time machine map, I've noticed. Architecturally it wouldn't look "classic" as a 200x release.

[Tristan]

dew said:

but map11 is the actual hot candidate for the Bestest Map Ever left in there.

Yeah since MAP14 was voted out, this is the only one left which could actually win and I wouldn't question it.

[Snakes]

E2M2 over Map15? Map14's given the boot?

I can't even fuck with this bracket y'all, I'm out.

[Linguica]

Welcome to another round of April Agitation! We are finally into April, and as such, it's time to give this tournament's name some real meaning!

You will find the four head-to-head matchups for the remaining eight contestants. You may also find yourself becoming excessively agitated. Don't worry - this agitation is normal and healthy! And just because your favorite level is bad doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for it anyway! VOTE NOW!

=== FAQ ==

Q: When will this run?

Tentative Schedule:

March 17-19: Pernicious Play-Ins

March 20-22: Round 1 (first 32 entrants)

March 23-25: Round 1.5 (next 32 entrants)

March 26-28: Round 2

March 29-31: Sinful Sixteen

April 1-3: Evil Eight

April 4-6: Fiendish Four

April 7-9: Final Showdown

Q: Why do I need a Google account to vote?
A: It's the simplest way to have some sort of protection against ballot box stuffing. If you don't have a Google account, who are you and how have you traveled to 2015?

Q: Why is it called "April Agitation" when it starts in March?
A: Because the ultimate winner is crowned in April, of course. Why would you name a tournament based on when it starts, not when it ends? That would be silly.

Q: I think a map is seeded too high / too low.
A: You're probably right! Oh well!

[Linguica]

Previous round's results:

Spoiler

E1M7: Computer Station vs. MAP14: The Inmost Dens:

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=E1M7%7CMAP14&chco=0000e0&chd=e%3AqeVg

E1M7: Computer Station solidly takes MAP14: The Inmost Dens. Sorry American! Your Venice of Doom (what?) has sunk.

MAP26: The Abandoned Mines vs. E1M5: Phobos Lab:

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=MAP26%7CE1M5&chco=ff9900&chd=e%3AXqoU

E1M5: Phobos Lab condemned MAP26: The Abandoned Mines. Sorry MAP26, but your late-Romero stylings just couldn't compete.

E3M6: Mt. Erebus vs. E1M1: Hangar

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=E3M6%7CE1M1&chco=d00000&chd=e%3AephV

Well, down goes a 1-seed. E1M1 scored a close win over E3M6 on the back of fukin casuals who think a level with like 5 rooms is "better" than the father of all city maps. Hey, remember MAP09's music, entitled "Into Sandy's City"? The style of map that E3M6 originated was important enough that a SONG was named after it. But that's not enough for some people! Well, most people, apparently! Oh well!

MAP15: Industrial Zone vs. E2M2: Containment Area

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=MAP15%7CE2M2&chco=dcca02&chd=e%3AfugQ

This came down to literally - LITERALLY - a SINGLE vote. So if you voted for E2M2, congratulations! It was YOU who oh so slightly nudged E2M2: Containment Area past MAP15: Industrial Zone. And if you voted for MAP15, too bad you didn't get a friend to vote too, huh? Oh well, it's not like voting ever makes a real difference anyway.

MAP11: Circle of Death vs. MAP18: Courtyard:

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=MAP11%7CMAP18&chco=00d000&chd=e%3AsFT5

MAP11: Circle of Death manhandled MAP18: Courtyard, which was not terribly surprising.

MAP08: Tricks and Traps vs. E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly:

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=MAP08%7CE4M6&chco=9601ac&chd=e%3AXqoU

MAP08: Tricks and Traps's unlikely romp finally came to an end at the hands of E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly, a level that's even more malevolent than a map with a certain-death pit in the last room.

MAP29: The Living End vs. E1M2: Nuclear Plant

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=MAP29%7CE1M2&chco=0000e0&chd=e%3AqeVg

We all have a soft spot for E1M2: Nuclear Plant with it being the first KDitD level that Romero made, but it never really stood much of a chance against MAP29: The Living End, did it?

E1M3: Toxin Refinery vs. E4M2: Perfect Hatred

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p&chs=345x150&chl=E1M3%7CE4M2&chco=ff9900&chd=e%3Ab9kB

Finally, E4M2: Perfect Hatred took down E1M3: Toxin Refinery... although it was somewhat closer than I had anticipated.

This round's stuff:

Spoiler

E1M1: Hangar
In recent years, as "ludic" studies have progressed, there's been a lot of pseudoacademic nonsense about why E1M1 is secretly a work of genius and how it subtly takes the player through a game tutorial without them even noticing it. Because, see, the first room shows off height differences and item collection! And then you have to learn to open a door! And then shoot enemies, and oh look a zig zag room and a fireball enemy on a ledge! Etc etc. Well, this is all very nice, but besides being tautological (obviously the first encounter with ANYTHING in Doom is going to be the moment that "teaches" you about it), it's also undercut by the very map itself. People who worship E1M1's subtle, guided progression always seem to ignore the fact that in version 1.9 - you know, the version that the vast majority of people played Doom with - John Romero added a not-so hidden switch to open a door to the courtyard, and totally ruin all this supposedly careful setup. Instead of looking out and seeing an apparently unreachable armor, it's just right there! Instead of finding the subtly hidden secret door, you come OUT of it! Great, wonderful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fywI2bK61E

E2M2: Containment Area
Did you know that in the early 2000s, John Romero ran a website for a while called "cratemaze.com" that was devoted to, well, crate mazes? It lauded E2M2 as "the very first crate maze." As if this was a good thing. Here's the truth: people remember E2M2 for its crate maze. That's it! The rest of the level is your normal unmemorable Episode 2 Sandy Petersen / Tom Hall mashup of traps and pointless winding corridors. (Ooh, crushers. Ooh, a bunch of garish blue floor thingys. Amazing.) But for some reason, people attach a nice warm fuzzy sense of nostalgia to the crate maze. The problem is that the crate maze - and, indeed, any similar maze in any game - is absolutely, unequivocally awful. It's a rambling, nonsensical series of passages on a plain square grid. It's the sort of thing you doodle on graph paper in the 8th grade. It's not interesting! It's not fun! Quick, what's the last modern FPS you played with an honest-to-god maze in it? If you can't remember, it's because everyone realized that FPS mazes are awful time-wasting nonsense, and they should remain in the dustbin of history where they belong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=702605MHbrg

E1M7: Computer Station
E1M7 was the final full level that John Romero created for Doom 1. It brings to bear all of the design ethos and experience that he had accumulated in making the episode. So isn't it weird that not a single level Romero made for Doom 2 or Ultimate Doom is designed in a way even remotely like E1M7? Could it perhaps be because E1M7, you know, sucks? Look at an automap view of E1M7. What do you see? A big noodly map of hallways, right? Because that's all the level is. Romero drew a bunch of hallways and connected them together. "Oh but the windows and the nukage and-" wow, really? Windows? That's what impresses you? Not, you know, combat scenarios that are more interesting than "there are things waiting around this corner," but being able to see green goo around you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbzObiYer8I

E1M5: Phobos Lab
So I already stated how E1M1's supposed genius was ruined by the final v1.9 version. Well, Romero just couldn't leave well enough alone, because he did the same thing in Phobos Lab. As it was, E1M5 was just another dull map of corridors, although I guess it was maybe notable for having possibly the first example what would become one of Romero's favorite overused tropes: the central area with passageways leading off in cardinal directions (see, e.g., E1M6, E1M9, MAP17, MAP26...). But there was one nice thing about Episode 1: it was thematically consistent. Sure, it didn't exactly LOOK like a real moon base, but it was tech base-ish throughout. The demons had overrun the place, and there were space marine corpses strewn through the levels, but everything in Episode 1 was still more or less intact- and then you find the secret room that Romero added in v1.2 and which stayed from then on, with an absolutely inexplicable demonic teleporter. Why is this here? Did the demons somehow bring it with them? Plus, it totally ruins the final moment of the episode - at the end of E1M8 (assuming the first-time player didn't visit the secret level, which is reasonable), when the player is warped through the demonic altar, the player has never 1) seen any blatantly-demonic imagery in the whole episode, and 2) has never seen a teleporter, or known that you even could teleport in Doom. It was shocking! It was unexpected! Except, no, it was ruined by the demonic teleporter added into E1M5 to make deathmatch flow a little better or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJwZbOe2sk

MAP11: Circle of Death
MAP11 is one of those maps that you'll seldom see any negative feelings towards. For the life of me I can't figure out why. Look at the automap view of the level. What does it look like? A big squarish room with fiddly bits sticking out the sides, right? THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS. Look, you know perfectly well what happened here. John Romero started with a big square room, and drew a circular catwalk thing in the center. Then he drew a couple ofshoots going in various directions and locked them with key doors so you were required to run around like a trained monkey. That's it! That's the master plan of this level! There's no progression or flow - you only keep doubling back through the center arena because Romero haphazardly bolted all the additional areas onto it. If this wasn't enough, Circle of Death also totally blows the introduction of the single most interesting new enemy in the game: the archvile. You have an enemy that can 1) hit you with a firey blast from a distance, and 2) resurrect dead corpses it comes across. So you might put the very first one on a far-away pillar in a room with plenty of cover, and then release a second one into an arena before you double back through it, right? That would be the "directed play" way of doing it, right? HAHA NO. Stick it in a small room next to a plasma rifle, of course. Superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka7sWndhzzw

E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly
Sometimes I wonder if the beginning of E4M6 was an intentional troll against Ultimate Doom players. "Oh look, organic canyons," says the unwitting player. "Maybe this will be a new and interesting take on an outdoor map - like E2M2, but done bigger and better, by an author with more experience." WRONG - it's a psychout. After 30 seconds of what seems a promising start, the player steps out of the canyons to see another boring late-Romero marble-and-iron citadel of some sort. Remember MAP09: The Pit? How you started in the titular "pit" and ascended out of it in one of four directions? Well, Against Thee Wickedly sort of takes this (not particularly wonderful) idea and makes it even worse. Instead of a pit with lifts on the four sides, it's a pit with four lifts all in the middle! And the pit has an unavoidably damaging floor, with only a few scant radiation suits around! And the lifts are tiny, making it almost impossible to avoid being hit by fireballs if you are trying to stay off the damaging floor! And don't forget the Cyberdemon in cramped quarters, because that's always great fun! If you enjoy this sort of thing, you're a masochist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t_v4GXf-KU


MAP29: The Living End
So I said earlier how the automap view of MAP11 shows how lazy and uninspired Romero's design for it was. Well, MAP29 - his supposed Doom 2 magnum opus - is that same laziness writ larger. Once again we have a big huge room with a damaging floor, with a structure plonked down in the center, and then little fiddly bits tacked on around the perimeter until Romero got bored of it. And seriously, how obvious is it Romero just plain got tired of making this map? Starting on the south end of the big lava room, you wind around some cliffs and cliff-adjacent rooms in the southwest (vignette 1). Then you teleport (always a sign of lazy mapping) to the west side, with another cliff staircase and a silly little marble room (vignette 2). Then you raise a bridge while fighting some cacodemons (vignette 3). This bridge then leads to 3 separate, unconnected, wildly thematically different areas in the north and northwest (vignettes 4, 5, and 6). Then you teleport (again) to an area tacked onto the northeast with an ambush and a bunch of switches and stuff (vignette 7). Then you teleport (AGAIN) to the center, and... ...wait, what about the west and southwest? Why is there just a big boring unbroken stretch of wall there instead? Why do people claim to love this obviously unfinished map? What was Romero doing for most of 1994 that he didn't have time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeWhzUC8DY


E4M2: Perfect Hatred
Is it possible for an author to rip himself off? Because that's clearly what Romero was doing with E4M2. Perfect Hatred is - guess what - a big room with a damaging floor! And there's fiddly bits sticking out the sides! Except the whole thing was then put into a panini press and squished down to a fraction of its normal size, in order to intensify and meld it together or whatever. And it's not that E4M2 is terrible per se, it's just... so derivative of Romero himself, that it's almost silly. It's a tinier Map29, with a MAP11-esque catwalk structure above the lava, and even a E4M6-esque rock cavern area off to the west. Supposedly this level was created in one 6-hour mapping binge, and it feels like a speedmap - the author is too busy trying to do everything quickly that he resorts to just lifting stylistic elements and layouts wholesale, because it's quicker and easier than spending time thinking of something new and interesting. That said, the level is also poorly playtested, and this has somehow become a badge of honor, with Doomers saying how much they love E4M2 because it's soooo hardcore and unforgiving and blah blah. Sorry, no. If a level in a commercial game is ridiculously, notoriously, uncharacteristically difficult, it's because it wasn't tested and balanced properly, and this is not a good thing. Just because you like to point to it to prove your hardcore gamer bona fides doesn't change that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzfIPH1TP64

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP29 vs. E4M2

Oh dear...

[AD_79]

alright HERE WE GO

[billbuckner]

I can't help but think there's something up with the level descriptions.

[Tarnsman]

The top 4 maps of the final 8 are pretty much all the proof needed that Doomworld has awful, awful taste.

[Pure Hellspawn]

Goodbye Doom 2.

Spoiler

E1M1 vs E2M2 - I do not like E2M2 and the crate maze. I'm honestly surprised this level is among the top eight. E1M1 is an intro level and it is much better at being an intro level than E2M2 is at being a normal level.

E1M7 vs E1M5 - Two E1 maps. I'm going with E1M5 here. I like the level a lot better, and it is a better level.


the last two have Doom 2 levels!!

Map11 vs E4M6 - E4M6 made it hear for a good reason. Map11 is a good level with not so good music vs. this beast of a map. E4M6 gets my vote.

Map29 vs E4M2 - Okay. This one is the hardest vote for me. Unlike Map11 vs E4M6, both of these are beast maps and earn spots. You can avoid the cyberdemon in both. E4M2 is raw hell. I'll vote for it.

[billbuckner]

If I had to pick a winner, it'd be E4M2 in a heartbeat, but if it ran that close to E1M3, I have a feeling it'll have a tough time beating MAP29.

[Joshy]

Tarnsman said:

The top 4 maps of the final 8 are pretty much all the proof needed that Doomworld has awful, awful taste.

Out of curiosity, what would you have considered the objectively true top 8? E3M6 and Map14 is a given, heh.

[AD_79]

>voting for doom 1 romero maps over doom 2 romero maps

no

no

just NO

[RottKing]

I love the videos picked out for each map.

[baja blast rd.]

billbuckner said:

I can't help but think there's something up with the level descriptions.

Videos are chosen to be obnoxious, so I'm laughing extra hard at the ones that aren't shitty mods.

[billbuckner]

AD_79 said:

>voting for doom 1 romero maps over doom 2 romero maps

no

no

just NO

Doom 2 is when his technique turned into formulaic schtick. Doom 1 is his vital work.

[baja blast rd.]

MAP11 v E4M6 is a tough one for me. Someone argue on their favorite's behalf!

[Obsidian]

I'm looking forward to seeing the descriptions devolve into all caps gibberish in the later rounds.

[AD_79]

billbuckner said:

Doom 2 is when his technique turned into formulaic schtick. Doom 1 is his vital work.

Romero's Doom 1 maps aren't formulaic/samey? Excuse me? Pretty much the entirety of Doom E1 feels like a single map with music changes every now and then. It's just more of the same over and over. Sure, Doom 2's Romero maps are samey, but they have a TON more variety than E1 mainly because of the much larger bestiary and more interesting map design.

[SyntherAugustus]

Go, MAP29, go!

[Magnusblitz]

Spoiler

E1M1 vs E2M2: I really don't understand the hate for the crate maze. Yeah, it's become a bit trite in its repeated variations over the years, but one of the reasons it sticks out so much is because it worked well. And the rest of the level is also awesome. Love the inter-connectedness. And it even looks pretty good, surprising for a Sandy map.

E1M7 vs E1M5: Aside from the red key ambush, I always found E1M5 to be one of the weaker E1 maps. Easy vote for E1M7.

MAP11 vs E4M6: I think I'm a bit less enamored with these two maps than most, but I'm more less (what?) enamored with MAP11 than E4M6.

MAP29 vs E4M2: This is probably nostalgia driving it, but E4M2 holds too much of a special place in my heart. Being near the end of the IWAD probably dooms MAP29 more than anything.

[Woolie Wool]

E1M1 vs. E2M2 and E1M5 vs. E1M7 are like being forced by a home invader to pick which one of your children you want to kill.

E: Can someone post the videos? I cast my vote before looking at them and I can't go back.

[Clonehunter]

I really do love The Living End. It's probably my favorite Doom 2 map, and one of my faves overall. It's also one of the few maps I play from a pistol start on UV just for fun.

[Marnetmar]

Fuck you E2M2 is awesome

[Linguica]

Woolie Wool said:

E: Can someone post the videos? I cast my vote before looking at them and I can't go back.

There's an option to "edit" your submission that will show you the pages again.

But I added the stuff to the OP anyway.

[Zed]

OK, here we go:

Spoiler

E1M1 - Hangar: Easy, I don't really like E2M2
E1M7 - Computer Station: Very hard, E1M5 is very good
E4M6 - Against Thee Wickedly: Again, very hard, MAP11 is brilliant, and I particularly like the use of the Arch-Vile there...
MAP29 - The Living End: Not as difficult, this is probably the best Doom II map (after MAP03 and MAP07, of course)

[Jaws In Space]

Spoiler

E1M7 vs E1M5, I voted E1M7 because I thinks it's great while E1M5 is average.
Map 11 vs E4M6, easy vote for Map 11, E4M6 is the only map still in the competition that I hate. The description on the voting page is spot on for me.
E1M1 vs E2M2, I guess I like E1M1 slightly more than E2M2, so it gets my vote.
Map 29 vs E4M2, I voted Map 29, both are quite fun, but I find Map 29 to be more impressive.

[cannonball]

So... who here was bribed by Romero, considering 7/8 of the remaining maps are his.
Likely to be 4/4 considering I think containment area is pretty awful. There are other Sandy maps I prefer to this one which met unfortunate ends,

[durian]

E4M2 vs. MAP29 will be interesting.

The fact that E1M1 has made is this far is a little baffling to me. I wouldn't expect it to beat E2M2, but - much to my surprise - it already beat MAP23, so I guess anything could happen.