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hardcore_gamer

Why does Quake 2 look like crap compared to half-life in spite of using newer tech?

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The other thing that helped Quake 2 was the player and also monsters could shoot projectiles which had colored lighting that moved in tandem with the object.

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Graf Zahl said:

Half-Life levels were only room-after-room

Really ? don't judge a game that you never played ,Only the first 1-7 chapters are inside the Research Facility for a good beginning of the story ,Rest of chapters 8-18 are outisde fights against Soldier,assassins and sometimes the aliens and it even had some underwater fights like in chapter 9 "Apprehension" ,If i remember it's chapter 10 "Residue Processing" when the Soldiers will capture you and they'll remove all of your weapons, and leave you for dead in a trash compactor .
EDIT :Ah a FinalDOOM Mapper is the one who made this level by the way.

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So your argument is that the player progresses halfway through the game to experience something resembling nonlinearity?

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TheCupboard said:

So your argument is that the player progresses halfway through the game to experience something resembling nonlinearity?

It's how the story goes, Of course if you care about it listen carefully to what the NPCs are saying and how do they Act ...

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Really ? don't judge a game that you never played


How do you pretend to know that? Of course I've played it. I own the main game and both mission packs.

And for long stretches it's going through corridor after some room after some ducts after some corridor and so on and so on.

Regardless of 'story', that's just boring and it perfectly mirrors what's so often criticized about modern games: Instead of making good gameplay the focus of the game, the story and all its trappings take that place, with gameplay being adjusted to the story and not the other way around. The levels were designed mainly to advance the story, not to be nice places for some action with the story retroactively tacked on - like it was done in Quake 2.

Granted, HL wasn't nearly as bad as modern games but it still laid the foundation for what has been plaguing FPS games for more than a decade.

Ultimately, though, the game had very few places that had to be revisited on the way to the end.

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Graf Zahl said:

gameplay being adjusted to the story and not the other way around.

It should be adjusted to the story (Like most of games) ,Or it will just be a stupid game about randomly testing out how things work .

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

It should be adjusted to the story (Like most of games) ,Or it will just be a stupid game about randomly testing out how things work .

Graf Zahl meant gameplay mechanics and scenarios that aren't fun by themselves and that are only present in the game for storytelling purposes. I can only agree with the opinion that this is generally a bad concept. Generally, not absolutely, I mean.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I think it actually improves the game in a so bad it's good kind of way. I always felt the scientists voice acting was hilarious.



Well I don't remember them being as weird as in this video but nearly :)

Graf Zahl said:

They were breaking new ground indeed, but look where it got us: By finalizing the transition to 'realism' nearly all fun had been squeezed out of first person shooters. For me Half-Life will always be remembered as the beginning of the end of fun gaming.


I see what you mean and I kind of feel the same. I skipped the majority of the Call of Duty clones in the 2000s and rather played obscure eastern european shooters...

Graf Zahl said:

Ultimately, though, the game had very few places that had to be revisited on the way to the end.


The level with big tentacle monster in the pit is one exception to that rule as far as I remember. You had to turn on fuel, electricity and fans in three separate areas to blast the monster away back in the pit room. This is an example of good level design in HL. Though I don't remember if you could solve these three tasks in any order (which would be a good example of non-linear design) or if it was strictly first A, then B, then C.

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Tastes are different, Some people prefer games with suspense and continuous storytelling, And others prefer games that has unique Play-style.

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BaronOfStuff said:

"Why does Quake 2 look like crap compared to half-life in spite of using newer tech?"

It doesn't. Next!

For the last time,both used pretty much the same engine,only Skeletal animations and OpenGL renderer are new things in the GoldSrc engine (And this is not a Big deal Btw) .

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@DMGUYDZ64:

... and some prefer games where the gameplay defines the story, not the other way around. Stories are all nice and well but if they result in a hyper-linear game, something is done wrong.

Even with the Half-Life story of 'get out of the complex' something better could have been done.
Even back in 1998 my main criticism was that Black Mesa didn't feel like a real place, there was no sense of location, it was basically impossible to draw a map of the place.

They should have drawn up a complete map of the complex first, then think about how it could serve the story, and THEN start mapping, but adhering to the map - including some interconnections that any logical place would have, not just closing off any paths to backtracking. I think the game would have been a lot more enjoyable if the player had had the feeling of a real location that actually makes sense. Of course such an approach would have resulted in a lot more work, that's why it's rarely - if ever - done.

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Tetzlaff said:

When I want to replay HL, could you recommend a mod or a source port?

Best mods i played for Half-Life so far are those :
* PARANOIA : http://www.moddb.com/mods/paranoia
* Sven co-op (Half-Life and it's expansion pack Co-operatively) !
http://www.moddb.com/mods/sven-co-op
* Earth Special Forces (Dragon Ball Z Mod) : http://www.moddb.com/mods/earths-special-forces
* Hazardous-Course 2 : http://www.moddb.com/mods/hazardous-course-2
* They Hunger : http://www.moddb.com/mods/they-hunger

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@Graf Zahl:
Half-Life was a good Sci-fi game and was the debut product for Valve,It won't hurt to see some new stuff from time to time .
* Also We saw some Real places in Half-Life 2 like Ravenholm .

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

EDIT :Ah a FinalDOOM Mapper is the one who made this level by the way.


I always laughed at how that security guard just blindly runs into those barnacles. Doesn't anybody notice those things?

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hardcore_gamer said:

I always laughed at how he just blindly runs into those barnacles. Doesn't anybody notice those things?

Except the Player ? no :P
Though NPCs in Half-Life 2 are able to notice and shoot them .

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Quake 2 is more advanced. I know it shows polygons in a way that look like they're shaking, but the special effects (especially lighting) is much more advanced.

Half-Life probably looks better because things are maybe more simple, and the polygons don't appear shaking. Artists were probably able to focus on more noticeable things like: animation, textures, and polygon models.

It's funny the original Quake has less defined polygon models compared to Half-Life (especially with HD pack), despite being made by the original game and game-engine designers.

Question kind of reminds me of PSX vs Saturn. PSX has much higher fillrate and polygon performance, but the quads on Saturn look better without perspective correction, and you only need one quad to make a square (instead of two triangles). Quads also seem to work better with integer based machines (and math: e.g. game engines).

Sometimes when things are stupid, and simple, they work better.

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Holering said:

Sometimes when things are stupid, and simple, they work better.

That sums up the Doom engine basically :-D

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Holering said:

Quake 2 is more advanced. I know it shows polygons in a way that look like they're shaking, but the special effects (especially lighting) is much more advanced.

You probably don't know it but, Even GoldSrc engine has this feature since it's based on ID Tech 2 "try running the game in Software renderer and see (Also works in OpenGL and D3D Renderers) "

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Holering said:
Sometimes when things are stupid, and simple, they work better.

VGA said:
That sums up the Doom engine basically :-D

No, it doesn't really.

It sums up arcade-style 2D games, though. And Mario games too.

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Admittedly, no further that until I got tired or couldn't make a jump. Clones tend to be shorter and their innovation factor keeps me interested for a while, which is sometimes enough to get through the entire game. But yeah, what I had in mind was the style of first levels until it wears off.

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Clonehunter said:

Blue Shift was better than Base HL, and Quake 2 looked good for a PSX shooter. It's probably the best one.

I Loved Opposing Force more then Bshift ,It had more bosses and less bore :I

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

You probably don't know it but, Even GoldSrc engine has this feature

Didn't know that. Interesting.

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