Still, its not very 'Doomish'

[RRROOOAAARRR]

I probably wasn't expressing myself very clearly - my point was that it would be a shame if DOOM III, whether as "remake" or "new one" didn't incorporate everything that games engines can do now, just for the sake of being more faithful to the original.

[Disorder]

Lot's of people were probably expecting to see a complete translation from the old Doom's into the new one.
That would make things look extremely stupid IMO.
I'm glad they did it this way...

There's only 2 things I didn't like about the 11-minute-movie.

1. "I smell fear!"
I think they should only moan and scream.. Talking sounds dumb.
2. That attack-rifle. It looks like it's from Star Trek.
I wan't that old Plasmarifle-style back. You know, the tech-look, as I like to call it..

[Zaldron]

Disorder said:

1. "I smell fear!"
I think they should only moan and scream.. Talking sounds dumb.
2. That attack-rifle. It looks like it's from Star Trek.
I wan't that old Plasmarifle-style back. You know, the tech-look, as I like to call it..

I love the "I smell fear!". I just like their voice. Specially the tentacleguy's kick grunt. Moans and screams are for the zombies, actual talking for the possessed marines.

[dsm]

Zaldron said:

I love the "I smell fear!". I just like their voice. Specially the tentacleguy's kick grunt. Moans and screams are for the zombies, actual talking for the possessed marines.

Uhh, I thought they were ALL possessed.

The only things from the movie I'd like to change:
1. Make a generic helmet for all former humans - it's not like the military wastes time and resources designing ten different helmets for each unit - the Doomguy's helmet being different from the former humans' is acceptable since he's a space marine and his helmet must be designed to be combined with a space suit. (This one's not all that important)
2. Give the former humans the same type of armour as the Doomguy. (not all that important either)
3. Give the Doomguy leather-like combat gloves (like the guards/former human troops have).
4. Make the Doomguy's underarm a bit beefier. It looks really weird how his underarm is so damn thin - makes his hands look ridiculously big.
5. Give all former humans + the doomguy the same type of camouflage army trousers that the chaingunner/"tentacle whip guy" wears.
6. Last but certainly not least: change his head (before he puts on the helmet) back to the Macworld Doomguy's head/face - that was the one which best captured the looks of the old Doomguy mug. This new Doomguy looks too "green" (young and inexperienced) and his hair is dark as opposed to the old Doomguy mug's light brown hair.

I'm satisfied with everything else in the video...more or less.

[Zaldron]

Fun, fun, fun...quoterama :

Uhh, I thought they were ALL possessed.

Not this time, apparently.

1. Make a generic helmet for all former humans - it's not like the military wastes time and resources designing ten different helmets for each unit - the Doomguy's helmet being different from the former humans' is acceptable since he's a space marine and his helmet must be designed to be combined with a space suit. (This one's not all that important)

Actually they have different kinds of helmet because they're a completely different kind of soldier. The Doomguy is a grunt, while the tentacle guy apparently was some sort of specop given it's weird visual enhancements.

2. Give the former humans the same type of armour as the Doomguy. (not all that important either)

What former humans? The civilian zombies?

3. Give the Doomguy leather-like combat gloves (like the guards/former human troops have).

I agree. I like gloves.

4. Make the Doomguy's underarm a bit beefier. It looks really weird how his underarm is so damn thin - makes his hands look ridiculously big.

I can see what you're talking about, but I guess doomguy is just a standard marine, not some comics heroe muscleman.

5. Give all former humans + the doomguy the same type of camouflage army trousers that the chaingunner/"tentacle whip guy" wears.

Green camouflage is useless in Mars.

6. Last but certainly not least: change his head (before he puts on the helmet) back to the Macworld Doomguy's head/face - that was the one which best captured the looks of the old Doomguy mug. This new Doomguy looks too "green" (young and inexperienced) and his hair is dark as opposed to the old Doomguy mug's light brown hair.

The new head is way better geometry-wise and he's certainly more handsome. The old doomguy was terribly drawn. The mug had nothing to do with the Ultimate Doom end pic, or the Doom2 pic. Besides he looked way too old to be just a private.

[Fredrik]

Green camouflage is useless in Mars.

No it's useful for nukagesurfing.

[chumps]

Zaldron said:

The only feeling I remember is disliking the levels. The mixture of colors, lighting and layouts made it a really unpleasant place to be. I hate being in a level. And that's something I'm not sure if I want to feel in D3. ^_^

i totally agree with you there. it wasn't that it was unpleasant aesthetically, there was just something about the whole doom experience that seriously unnerved me. no id game since has captured that feeling.

i don't know what it is though. maybe because it was such a new experience, you know, being an fps and all. maybe it was the music, or the design, or just my age, i was rather young and impressionable when i first played it. i don't know, but thinking back i always had a hard time playing through the game because it was just so... uncomfortable.

sometimes i think the surreal quality of the game had something to do with it. those pixelated textures and sprites were ugly, yes, but they were somehow... abstract, and my mind seemed to fill in the gaps between the pixels.

the quake experience was so different in comparison. i never got that queasy, sinister feeling. the graphics and architecture was amazing for the time, but the fiend never frightened me like the pinky did. the shambler wasn't as intimidating as the barons.

q2 was definitely lacking, q3 was a multiplayer cartoon. hl had some rad moments but it always seemed a little too 'bright' for me. wolfenstein wasn't that great, though i admit the level with those leaping monsters in the laboratory was pretty freaky. i played the first level of systemshock2 and THAT was definitely freaky, i hated the interface clutter and crappy graphics though so i soon forgot about it.

watching the e3 presentation gives me new respect for id. nothing is really shown in terms of gameplay, the dude runs around shooting things, but still there is a depth that i haven't seen in any game to date. it's not just the great graphics and sound, it goes beyond that, it feels like id are really paying attention to the GAMER and his feelings. even from first person view, the game is surprisingly cinematic. the cut scene acting/animation is jarring, but the game itself looks very very promising. hopefully it will be very very... uncomfortable as well :).


babbling...

[dsm]

Zaldron said:
Actually they have different kinds of helmet because they're a completely different kind of soldier. The Doomguy is a grunt, while the tentacle guy apparently was some sort of specop given it's weird visual enhancements.

Uh yeah, I kinda figured, but modern special forces don't have different helmets from normal grunts, and no, the Doomguy is not just a regular grunt, he's a spacemarine.

What former humans? The civilian zombies?

No, you blind chump (j/k about the "insult"), the guards that get possessed in the beginning!

I can see what you're talking about, but I guess doomguy is just a standard marine, not some comics heroe muscleman.

True, true, but if he's supposed to make it out of Hell alive (and to weild weapons like the chaingun) he's got to be a little more than your "standard marine" - this guy HAS to be a badass and furthermore, muscles look cooler and give a better impression of him being a hero imho.

Green camouflage is useless in Mars.

Once again, we're not talking about what use it has in the gaming world, we're talking about how to make the characters look cool - army camouflage looks waaay cooler than regular green jumpsuit trousers.

The new head is way better geometry-wise and he's certainly more handsome. The old doomguy was terribly drawn. The mug had nothing to do with the Ultimate Doom end pic, or the Doom2 pic. Besides he looked way too old to be just a private.

Handsomeness, tsk, who needs it? With all due respect, he's supposed to look like a combat hardened veteran not some Hollywood goody-goody hero - and how do you know he's a private? Even if he's a private, there's no telling that he hasn't been demoted from being a Sergeant, and mind you, proffesional soldiers can easily be around 35-40 years of age EVEN if they only have rank of private.
Once again you're wrong - the end pic of the ultimate Doom captured the Doomguy mug perfectly (except for a different haircut and hair colour). And just because the face in the macworld presentation wasn't as good geometry-wise you'd thing they wouldn't at least try and improve on its geometry instead of ditch it completely?
Bah! I don't understand you guys (no offence intended).

[Zaldron]

dsm said:
Uh yeah, I kinda figured, but modern special forces don't have different helmets from normal grunts, and no, the Doomguy is not just a regular grunt, he's a spacemarine.

"Modern". It's id's world, they can do whatever they want regarding future soldier's equipment.

No, you blind chump (j/k about the "insult"), the guards that get possessed in the beginning!

Oh, those? They look like standard-issue MP for the installation. It's obvious Doomguy doesn't quite belong there, he's like stationed or something.

True, true, but if he's supposed to make it out of Hell alive (and to weild weapons like the chaingun) he's got to be a little more than your "standard marine" - this guy HAS to be a badass and furthermore, muscles look cooler and give a better impression of him being a hero imho.

I wouldn't mind them, but it's not important. Makes you look even more wimpy against the big creatures, and that's cool by me.

Once again, we're not talking about what use it has in the gaming world, we're talking about how to make the characters look cool - army camouflage looks waaay cooler than regular green jumpsuit trousers.

Yeah, but well...bah, no point in arguing here. ^_^

Handsomeness, tsk, who needs it? With all due respect, he's supposed to look like a combat hardened veteran not some Hollywood goody-goody hero

I did not meant handsome as good-looking. I'm talking about the way it looks. The old doomguy looked like your regular army cinderblock.

Once again you're wrong - the end pic of the ultimate Doom captured the Doomguy mug perfectly. Bah! I don't understand you guys (no offence intended).

Now you're downright crazy. Someone post both pics. The difference is huge.

[dsm]

Bah, you wouldn't understand why the looks of the doomguy means so damn much to me anyway, (it's impossible to explain - I can only say that it's about capturing the old Doom feel) so this discussion is pointless.

[Fredrik]

I want the Doomguy to look like Winona Ryder or Natalie Portman :P

Though he better not be a guy then.

[dsm]

Fredrik said:

I want the Doomguy to look like Winona Ryder or Natalie Portman :P

Though he better not be a guy then.

Ah, but that certainly wouldn't catch the feel of the old Doom ;-)

[Fredrik]

dsm said:

Ah, but that certainly wouldn't catch the feel of the old Doom ;-)

I'm sure it would make a better feel to see either of them with full bumpmapping :)

[dsm]

It'd be great for a mod.

[Fredrik]

dsm said:

It'd be great for a mod.

I'm up for making it.

[dsm]

Zaldron said:
Now you're downright crazy. Someone post both pics. The difference is huge.

Hm, I just looked at the two pics and compared them and frankly, I don't see that "huge difference" that you're talking about - sure, his hair in the UDoom end pic is reddish unlike the mug's and his "grinding-teeth" expression is not quite the same as the mug's "grinding-teeth" animation, but his eyes look similar to the mug's (narrow eyes which don't seem quite symmetric), his facial "wrinkles" are similar (particularly around the mouth) and the shape of his chin is basically the same (if it IS different, it's because of his different expression - also, there's a shadow which makes it look like he's got a clefted chin, but he really hasn't).

You can call me a lunatic all you want, but you'll have to post your analysis down to the detail, before you'll stand a chance of convincing me, because to me, he looks almost ripped directly from the mug on that end pic (except for minor details mentioned above).

And I don't quite follow you when you say that the dude in the Macworld video looks "terribly drawn" - to me he looks like a live actor. Unless perhaps that you're referring to the armour which I can't see why you should be as it has no relevance to our discussion, so please elaborate if you can.

[Fredrik]

Who cares what the Doomguy looks like? Most of the time we won't see him, anyway.

[dsm]

Fredrik said:

Who cares what the Doomguy looks like? Most of the time we won't see him, anyway.

That's why I said that you'd never understand it in a thousand years. it's all about being compfortable with your character - most of you (if not ALL of you) only care about the game itself (which is understandable), but I'm different in that aspect and I reserve my rights to post about my different opinions.
Ok?

[Fredrik]

Yet another successful troll makes dsm bite the dust. Muahahah.

No, I think the Doomguy's look is important too and the new rendition of him is merely so-so.

[dsm]

Fredrik said:

Yet another successful troll makes dsm bite the dust. Muahahah.

No, I think the Doomguy's look is important too and the new rendition of him is merely so-so.

That's because I can't hear if you're using a sarcastic tone when you post and it's not like you have a habit of posting smileys after your trolls - everyone else (except those who've known you personally for years) would've thought that you were serious :-)

Well, I must confess that I'm surprised that someone agrees with me that the Doomguy's looks are so important (to some of us) - everyone seems to not give a damn even if he looks like Biker from Q3A (/me pukes at the mere thought). So, why do you think his looks are important? (I'm not interrogating you, I'm merely curious to get an impression on how other people look at this).

[Wobbo]

Zaldron said:
I've heard all kinds of "not doomy" comments, but no one seems to be able to describe that feeling. Does it really exists? [/B]

Yes. Doom 1 AND 2 had WIDE OPEN SPACES, even in the beggining levels. the new doom is WAY too cramped to be able to recreate dooms feeling. Doom 1 and 2 were almost always WAY BRIGHTER thatn this, and when it was dark it was scary BECAUSE OF THE CONTRAST TO LIGHTER AREAS.

What made the game scary was the TRANSFORMATION of light, happy, innocent ideas into dark hellish nightmares (i.e. the reaserch bases turned into slaughterhouses, or the transition from earth to hell). That was the overall THEME of doom. This new game fails to show us anything NOT dark and hellish, so it will probably fail in being as terrifying as doom, no matter how many shadows they squeeze in, because there is no CONTRAST.

That said, this will STILL probably be a good game, because of immersion and deathmatch. I really wish that id had choose to do something NEW instead though

[Fredrik]

We still haven't had a view of the Mars sky.

[Wobbo]

^^ yeah, that too

[Shaviro]

bah. I think DOOM III feels like DOOM. It has lots of monsters and all that.

[Livo]

About the helmet...

The guys that get possessed have goggles and their helmets on, you can see the guy that gets bumped by the scientist wearing the same thing.

As for our hero, well, either my eyes are playing up or it's just the light :)

When he goes down in the lift and he's holding the helmet under his arm, it looks like a fully enclosed helmet and visor- like the old Doom model.

However, when the 3rd person scenes kick in (chaingun zombie, the "pinkymonster" eating the zombie), the helmet seems different. To me, it looks more curved or angled backwards towards the rear of the helmet, with a visor that looks like it lowers over his eyes- not the fully enclosed environmental type one seen earlier.

[dsm]

Xian said:

Yes. Doom 1 AND 2 had WIDE OPEN SPACES, even in the beggining levels. the new doom is WAY too cramped to be able to recreate dooms feeling. Doom 1 and 2 were almost always WAY BRIGHTER thatn this, and when it was dark it was scary BECAUSE OF THE CONTRAST TO LIGHTER AREAS.

What made the game scary was the TRANSFORMATION of light, happy, innocent ideas into dark hellish nightmares (i.e. the reaserch bases turned into slaughterhouses, or the transition from earth to hell). That was the overall THEME of doom. This new game fails to show us anything NOT dark and hellish, so it will probably fail in being as terrifying as doom, no matter how many shadows they squeeze in, because there is no CONTRAST.

That said, this will STILL probably be a good game, because of immersion and deathmatch. I really wish that id had choose to do something NEW instead though

Funny, I think of cramped spaces when I think about Doom - and that shit about the "transformation between light and dark was scary" is BS. The scare factor of Doom was chiefly cramped spaces, monster growling sounds and your occasional dark room - the new game seems to capture this nicely (ESPECIALLY because there's a lot of darkness. I like how the game is so dark generally - it gives a better impression of a base where everything has litterally gone to Hell.

And if you look more carefully at the video, you'll see a few rooms which are lighted up (I saw at least ONE room which was lighted up in the gameplay part of the video).

[evasivemanuvers]

I think the game should have at least a few NPCs to interact with in the game.

[Kaiser]

Fredrik said:

Unless I beat you to it :P

you're wrong. I'll be the one to finish it fisrt :p.

I'll be the first to release e1m1 for Doom III. just you wait ^_^

[Fredrik]

I'll be the first to re-make MAP01 for DOOM3.

If I figure out how the editor works in less than three months, that is.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

How the Doomguy looks is as important as how the engine looks, how anything looks. I mean, he has to have a certain, "character", otehrwise he wouldn't "seem" like the Doomguy...you know what I mean? If he was a big fluffy toy walking around with a nerf gun, that just wouldn't seem right...obviously. In the end, it doesn't really matter, cause it's still DooM III but it would feel not like it.

If anyone can understand that, hooray! If not, beh.