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Gryregaest

First Map (WIP)

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Hi Doomworld!

Okay, so this is my first attempt at making a wad. I've toyed with GZDoom Builder a bit before, but this is the first thing that approaches a complete level. It's still a WIP, but I wanted to see if I could get some feedback on where I am so far.

It's based on the overworld map from the original Legend of Zelda. I was looking for something to try to recreate as a means to learn the software. I feel like I smoothed out most of the major goofs, but it's entirely possible I missed some.

I've put it together into what should be a functional level, but I'm considering changing that and making it a hub (it's in Hexen format already) with the dungeons as sub-levels. I'm also considering converting it to Hexen, since in retrospect, that makes way more sense.

So, thoughts? Are the tree trunks too easy to get stuck on? Too easy or hard? (there's no differing difficulty levels currently) Problems with the layout of monsters/items?

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pa2bh2m5dcdafw9/Overworld.zip

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Wonderful effort for a first wad. The map is so big/detailed that it has performance issues (I get a slow framerate), but whatever. I've encountered several (5+) monsters that couldn't move because they were partially stuck inside walls. GZDoomBuilder's error checker should tell you which ones they are. Remember that monster's bounding boxes are actually squares, not circles, so that they might not fit a space that you thought they would fit.

Again, the map was impressive by its sheer scale and also uniqueness. Monsters were disorganized and they occasionally cluttered at certain places, but fighting them was generally OK and satisfying, difficulty = good. I really wouldn't want to put you down, but: Take into consideration that all players have a limited patience during exploring a map, and limited tolerance for repetition. This map kinda exceeds both limits, I'd say drastically. I hope that I don't need to elaborate on that, you see how it consists entirely of same-y patterns and textures, which are (by the way) rather very ugly to look at. Also, action game players want their fun compacted a lot, lot, lot more than you did here. Repetition is not a good trait, it doesn't enrich the player's experience anyhow, so just take it into consideration.

Anyway, I've somewhat finished the map, mostly in a legit way: I've explored the map and found 5 keys, then I cheated to find out the location of the remaining key, then I cheated to return to the exit area with locked doors (because I forgot which teleporter led there, and didn't feel like spending 20+ minutes searching for it).

So still, good job, please continue coming up with unconventional ideas while mapping. ;)

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scifista42 said:

Remember that monster's bounding boxes are actually squares, not circles, so that they might not fit a space that you thought they would fit.


Tools > Preferences > Appearance, select the first check box on the bottom right hand side "Square Things". Takes a smidge of getting used to, visually, but is very helpful for stuff like this.

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I had 3 or 4 runs on this map, I didn't finish it, but loved how I was able to explore different areas on each run. As a big fan of Zelda, I loved the music and the unusual exploratory nature of this map. I didn't find any teleporter, but this is an obligatory sound replacement if you include any: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Z9MwvTw5UObligatory

I also had frame rate issues, the hub (and hexen) ideas are good, but you could consider including some impassable walls, because most areas, like the forests, didn't really need to be connected with everything else, except for cacodemons being able to fly over them. If the tree logs were impassable walls, would help a lot. Especially because there's no much height variation (which would be welcome, by the way).

One suggestion that is easy to include is music changes when you get inside different areas, as in the original game.

Great job, waiting for the finished version.

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Thanks for the feedback!

I might be able to improve the framerate some by eliminating some 3d object that don't strictly speaking need to exist. See, all the 'leafy portions' of the trees were originally just low ceilings, but I ran into trouble when the map opened up more and led to the mountainous areas. It made it very obvious where edge of the skybox-textured ceiling was and made invisible walls that ruined the appearance. So I switched to 3d objects for the upper portions. I have removed some already and reverted to low ceilings for the southwest part of the map, because seeing the mountains messed up the effect. I might be able to go through and switch back to low ceilings in other places where it wouldn't matter.

Question though - I know the 3d objects can slow things down, but do slopes have a similar problem? If so, I might be able to eliminate some issues by simplifying some areas that don't necessarily need them.

I figured I probably missed some of the stuck monsters. I have some things-stuck-in-things which are necessary, in the form of the hell knight statues that serve as stand ins for the the armos. So I sometimes miss other stuck objects in the error checker. I'll try the 'square things' option.


I'm still working on how to make the monster fighting work better. All the monsters present are rendered deaf because being mostly an outdoor map meant that originally they'd aggro from all over the place, which made it a bit silly. It works better now, but there still is a tendency for some to attract from long distances, particularly cacodemons.

A lot of the problems are a result of this being an adaptation. It has to stay somewhat true to the source material, but it also has to function as a decent Doom level, and I'm still hammering out where I stay true and where I improvise, and how.

For example, repetition comes because the overworld map is just a series of rectangles for each screen, and the textures are a bit boring and same-y because the original textures were quite limited. These aren't excuses or defenses of this, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but that's where the problems come from.

Question again - do you think switching it to Hexen would help or exacerbate some of these problems? It's still an action game, but I find that it isn't as fast paced as Doom, given the nature of the weapons and enemy types.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Edit, because Darch posted while I was writing: There's actually lots of silent teleporters, but there are some regular teleporters for the warp halls, and I'll have to consider the sound. Thanks!

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Amazing stuff! I had some frame rate issues too, and like the others have reported I found some stuck monsters. Sometimes the forests were a bit too cramped imo. I liked how you could explore the whole map, and most of all I liked how you made the secret areas (and the HKs that wake up when you touch them), it really gave me the feel of the original Zelda! I think that making an hub with the dungeons is a good idea, I'm looking forward to try them. Maybe you should also consider to repopulate the overworld after visiting a dungeon. Keep it up! :)

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That was really cool. I love both Zelda and Doom and you successfully bridged both of them.

Next up: Make the dungeons.

And if you're up for it, randomize bossfights in them and which dungeons have the keys to exit the map. That would be extra cool.

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Framerate and monsters stuck in walls as already mentioned. But I loved the sense of being hunted through this vast forest. Really liked the puzzles. Really liked the uniqueness of the map as a whole. cool ideas.

The only critique I had was that sections of the level looked a little bland. But totally excusable if you are going for the whole Zelda thing.

Cheers for a fun map.

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I played this, it's rather interesting. Sort of fun, if a little rough. Pretty cool after I used the IDDT cheat in GZDoom to render monsters and stuff to the automap, then it becomame an odd open-world top-down shooter.

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This is amazing. For a first map, its great! Very different from anything than I've played. I like the way you used the default DOOM textures to your advantage. I also love the Knight Statues, how you touch them and then they wake up, just like in Zelda.

Can't wait to see more.

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I think that you are better off keeping it as a doom level than hexen because doom's combat is just more vibrant to me. OR, turn Doomguy into doom link.

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