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Most evenly matched Doom enemies?

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Pardon if this question is too noobish, but a quick forum search gave no results. For the purposes of infighting, what are the 2 most evenly matched enemies in Doom?

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Linguica said:

Demon and spectre, of course!!

Spectre wins that every time, because some of the Demon's attacks will hilariously miss to the sides :-D

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Imp X Shotgunguy.
or
Imp X Demon.

Seriously, I can see an imp win against a demon surprisingly often. Demon has 2.5x more health and roughly 1.5x stronger attack, but an imp has a ranged attack, which will be performed even when he misses his attempt at a melee attack. At close range, their chances to win seem to be equal.

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Probably keen vs hanging pair of legs the blocking version.

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Linguica said:

Demon and spectre, of course!!

Do... Do monsters infighting with specters have the same randomized missing effect?

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VGA said:

Spectre wins that every time, because some of the Demon's attacks will hilariously miss to the sides :-D

Shows how much you know about the magic of Demon/Spectre attacks. As long as the target is within range, they hit. Partial Invisibility has no practical effect on Demons or Spectres.

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Marcaek said:

Either HellKnight and Revenant, or Spiderdemon and Cyberdemon.

HellKnight always wins against the Revenant at close range. At long range, Revenant is more likely to win, though. The problem is that once they get into a close range combat, only an outside force can separate them, which practically never happens.

Spiderdemon and Cyberdemon is an even more interesting duo. Cyber always wins at long range, but close range depends purely on luck, as it seems. You can't tell which one will win, or how much the winner will be weakened. These monsters lack melee attacks due to their large widths, so that they can randomly wander from/towards each other during the fight. It affects the efficiency of Spiderdemon's attack - the closer he is, the better is probability to interrupt Cyberdemon's attack by triggering his pain state.

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I think what we should be looking at here is how much damage a monster can deal to another before it's killed, as well as its maximum damage:health (D:H) ratio.

In some pairings, like e.g. Revenant vs HK, the Revenant almost always deals more damage than its own health, and the 200 HP advantage is not always enough. A Rev has a max D:H of 80:300, HK is 60:500, so if they simply trade fireballs from a distance without missing, the Rev would take 5 hits to die, but in the mean time it would have dealt 400 HP of damage to a HK, and with some luck, even kill it (quite likely, as the Rev's homing attack will miss less).

Imps vs Demons: Imps also manage to deal more than their 60 HP of damage to the Demons before going down, because of their ranged attack and because their melee attacks don't miss. It also has a D:H ratio of 24:60, probably the highest in the game, at least for a melee-capable monster. Only shotgunners (45:30) rank higher.

Some longer rants:

Revenant and Hell Knight are surprisingly evenly matched, just like the Knight and Bishop in chess.

Personally, I'd say the Revenant has an obvious advantage as the aggressor: his ranged attack never misses, deals more damage, and has a slightly faster melee attack and recovery time, which gives it a fair chance of breaking the HK's melee attacks with pain. These factors put together, allow the Revenant to easily close the 200 HP gap, and even kill a HK one-on-one.

To allow the HK to win, it should really be put in a situation where the Revenant can't use its ranged attack too often, and it also needs a bit of luck with the pain chance. An interesting variation of this is a Baron vs 2 Revenants. Think the Baron will always win?

If Doom was a brawling game, the Revenant would be some sort of skinny but tough, fast and mean "bad muthafuckah" gangabanger, with a ton of dirty tricks and ruthlessness up its sleeve. The Baron/HK are just dumb tanks in comparison, which have little going for them outside of ridiculously inflated HP for the damage that they can actually dish out in combat. It's like comparing a trained and fit martial artist (Rev) vs a dumb "ox" type bodybuilder pumped full of steroids.

Other interesting matches are Cacodemon vs HK and Revenant: health is in the same ballpark, and Cacodemon has the most rapid ranged attack. Its flight ability may be a boon or a handicap, depending on circumstances.

Manc vs HK or Baron of Hell: if the melee distance is closed, it's obviously not quite equally matched, but from a distance, especially if most fireballs connect, the heavy damage cannot be taken lightly.

Cacodemon or Revenant vs Manc: out of pure luck, the Manc may just squash the caco or rev in two volleys. Or it may be pinned and moan in pain as it's pelted with rapid attacks from a moving target, which closes in for a final beating.

The Imp is another story: kinda like a smaller revenant, it has a maximum damage which is above 1/3 of its own health, and above 1/3rd that of a Baron, and yet appears in numbers well beyond 3 for 1 Baron. This means it's a clear threat for anything in its health ballpark. It's more than a match for any zombie (except chaingunners, and then only if they get a lock), and they can even through Demons and Spectres with ease, since unlike them, their attacks don't miss.

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Range and mobility is a factor for most of these fights, but in my experience the closest matches (In terms of the winner being as close to death as possible) are:

Shotgun Guy + Lost Soul
Imp + Lost Soul
Imp + Pinky Demon
Imp + Spectre
Hell Knight + Revenant
Baron of Hell + Mancubus
Cacodemon + Revenant
Chaingun Guy + Cacodemon
Chaingun Guy + Arachnatron
Cyberdemon + Spider Mastermind

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jmickle66666666 said:

my favourite infighting thing:
chaingunners beat arachnotrons, arachnotrons beat hellknights, hellknights beat chaingunners

Arachnotron is Rock, Hellknight is Scissors, and Chaingunner is Paper. I think you're right. It's great! :)

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Cyberdemon vs Spider Mastermind in Gotchya is actually a little random. Most of the time, of course, Cyberdemon ends up winning but sometimes the Cyberdemon just keeps wandering around in a semi-stunned state and getting blasted then ends up losing. Chalk it up to random Monster AI.

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imp vs demon; you never know which one will win, especially since the only way to trigger infighting is if the imp hits the demon first.

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Maes said:

The Imp is another story: kinda like a smaller revenant, it has a maximum damage which is above 1/3 of its own health, and above 1/3rd that of a Baron, and yet appears in numbers well beyond 3 for 1 Baron.


1/3 * 1/3 = 1/9.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Cyberdemon vs Spider Mastermind in Gotchya is actually a little random. Most of the time, of course, Cyberdemon ends up winning but sometimes the Cyberdemon just keeps wandering around in a semi-stunned state and getting blasted then ends up losing. Chalk it up to random Monster AI.


i believe it depends on distance
the spider is a large target so the cybie's rockets always have nearly 100% accuracy on it regardless of distance. on the other hand, the spider's chaingun spreads a lot so its accuracy on cybie varies much depending on distance.
on doom2 map20 the cybie seems to win often. but if they are placed in a narrower place, the spider may have a higher chance of winning.

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xAn said:

Mancubus vs revenant

I think Mancubus wins that every time. Once they start firing those 3 pairs of huge fast fireballs ...

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I've seen cacodemons sadistically beat up revenants, probably because of latter's weakness to close range.

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No mention of the Archville? I haven't really noticed these "evenly matched enemies" thing before (I'd probably be better at it with Heretic monsters), but I'd say that a Cocademon and a Hell Knight always seem to be pretty evenly matched.

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