Discuss Star Trek and everything about it

[geo]

chungy said:

Well ok. How about All Good Things... when Riker ordered the Enterprise to go to warp 13 to get out of Romulan space?

That's what I always think of too. I also think the Borg can go higher than warp 10 as well.

Someone on the forum explained it in a way warp 13 would be Warp 9.999. But that's only if we want to admit that warp 10 = everywhere at once.

[Captain Toenail]

If we re-align the subspace coils, then divert power from life support, regenerate the dilithium matrix with the phase-inducer manifold and rotate the phase shield harmonics to a frequency of 5 gigaquads, we should be able to do warp 13 in just 10 minutes and beam crewman Dweebly out of the dimensional hyper-rift at the last second, no? Surely its worth a shot? We may have to jettison the cargo before the warp core implodes due to the electro-bosonic resonance though...

I do enjoy Star Trek though, a new TV series would be cool.

[MajorRawne]

Enterprise was a lot better than people make out, there was miles too much bandwagon bashing, but there were a number of piss-poor decisions and it failed almost completely as a prequel series.

That said, seasons 3 and 4 were a big improvement. Season 4 had some of the best Trek episodes and I'd rate it as competitive (to a point) against DS9, and certainly against Voyager and TNG.

For me, despite its lame start and very poor pilot episode, DS9 is my favourite sci-fi series. SG: Atlantis has far sharper dialogue and more convincing human characters (something Trek has always lacked since the end of the TOS era), but DS9 is the only family show where you'll see the villain lead a cult into a suicide ritual after impregnating one of his female initiates (who he pushed out of an airlock).

[Quasar]

geo said:

That's what I always think of too. I also think the Borg can go higher than warp 10 as well.

Someone on the forum explained it in a way warp 13 would be Warp 9.999. But that's only if we want to admit that warp 10 = everywhere at once.

That may have been a "virtual" warp 13 courtesy of the quantum slipstream drive technology, rather than warp 13 courtesy of a standard warp drive (which is usually said to be impossible). After Voyager brought it back to the Alpha quadrant, the expanded universe is in fairly good agreement that Star Fleet eventually stabilizes the technology and starts retrofitting many different classes of star ships with them.

Also, that was an alternate future, so who knows if anything seen in it is valid on the main timeline. Several things made since would contradict it in almost its entirety.

[Aliotroph?]

I like the idea of a scale recalibration. Voyager's stated max cruise speed was warp 9.975 in the pilot. What happens when most of Starfleet finally has ships that can do warp 9.99995 or whatever? Time to redraw the curve! There's space to have a nice little background plot about how they fought over that when they recalibrated in the TNG era and got it wrong. Giving a physics-based limit like "spacecraft would occupy all points simultaneously" a low number like 10 is just daft.

[geo]

Wasn't there a TNG plot about how warp radiation was toxic for some species so Star Fleet vowed to never go faster than warp 6 unless its in a dire emergency? I'm sure the next episode they went warp 9.

[MajorRawne]

I've always ignored the "warp 10 is infinite" stuff. It seems wrong that warp 8 is several hundred or thousand times faster than light, warp 9 is twice as fast as that, but then there's this sudden jump to infinite speed.

A top-level sports car from decades ago might reach 100mph. Now they might reach 180-200mph. Does that mean that the next generation of supercars will be so fast they'll exist everywhere at once when you put your foot down?

This may be an appalling dumb-down of science, but it's how the warp 10 theory always sounded.

[Quasar]

geo said:

Wasn't there a TNG plot about how warp radiation was toxic for some species so Star Fleet vowed to never go faster than warp 6 unless its in a dire emergency? I'm sure the next episode they went warp 9.

No, the story was that heavy use of high warp speeds over long periods of time in "fragile" areas of space could eventually open up subspace rifts, which were extremely hazardous.

Supposedly the Federation and other species did limit non-emergency warp speeds after that was discovered, but there are various stories occurring afterward that really just hand-wave away the issue - it was bad story writing for a series that depends on ridiculous speeds of travel to make it realistic.

[Psyrus]

Quasar said:

No, the story was that heavy use of high warp speeds over long periods of time in "fragile" areas of space could eventually open up subspace rifts, which were extremely hazardous.

Supposedly the Federation and other species did limit non-emergency warp speeds after that was discovered, but there are various stories occurring afterward that really just hand-wave away the issue - it was bad story writing for a series that depends on ridiculous speeds of travel to make it realistic.

Such as one of the explanations behind variable geometry pylons.

[Quasar]

Psyrus said:

Such as one of the explanations behind variable geometry pylons.

Memory Alpha, one of the few wikia wikis I'll still visit on account of it being an unparalleled resource :V

[Aliotroph?]

Putting your nacelles in a different position when they're turned off affects what happens when they're on? That sounds like some Voyager-quality technobabble!

[Kontra Kommando]

I think Geordi looked cooler with the Jheri curls. He kind of looks like Eazy-E in that picture.

[geo]

Geori Curls? I don't remember that episode.

[AkiraZXE]

The curls are from some test footage of TNG before it went into production.

[geo]

I finally made it through the Mookie episode. Quark's mom. I kept forgetting about it. I'd think where the fuck did I leave off on? Then I'd turn it on and see oh yeah Mookie.... then off it would go.

In my eyes, this was DS9's version of Warp 10 from Voyager. So bad I wanted to stop watching the entire series.

[Snakes]

Threshold was a special kind of suck.

I've always felt DS0's overall themes and storytelling topes made it superior to TNG, but the latter was far more consistent. The lows of DS9 are some of the worst 40-minutes of television I can think of (Profit & Lace, Let He Who is Without Sin, The Muse, Move Along Home... good lord those all suck).

[Aliotroph?]

TNG has its share of crap: The Icarus Factor, The Outrageous Okona, The Loss, The Royale, Shades of Gray, etc. Wow. most of that is seaon 2 just off the top of my head. Season 2 is pretty bad.

EDIT: Oh! Sub Rosa - that horrible, flaming pile of shit where Dr Crusher falls for a ghost in season 7!

[DeletedUser]

Data and Spock, logical to the end of time.

Also

[Snakes]

Aliotroph? said:

TNG has its share of crap: The Icarus Factor, The Outrageous Okona, The Loss, The Royale, Shades of Gray, etc. Wow. most of that is seaon 2 just off the top of my head. Season 2 is pretty bad.

EDIT: Oh! Sub Rosa - that horrible, flaming pile of shit where Dr Crusher falls for a ghost in season 7!

This is true. I guess I just found it more distracting in DS9 as these episodes usually deviated so far from the current arc that its placement just didn't make sense. What's more, TNG could at least be partially salvaged by the cast's charm. As much as I like DS9, Patrick Stewart & Co. were easily more charismatic sans a couple of actors. Bizarrely enough, the best actors in DS9 were usually the villains (Andrew Robinson, Jeffrey Combs, Marc Alaimo, etc.) and the worst episodes typically had nothing to do with them.

[geo]

If season 3 of DS9 supposedly picks up, its for a whole 2 episodes. This season has gone off the rails. Now the cast is inhabited by Dax's former hosts. Oh DS9 you saved the best for last. I'm sure there's some cliffhanger that leads into the next season.

You know as much as we can make fun of awful episodes, its a real chance for actors to act and do something completely different no other actors get to do. Become a different character, fight something, talk technobable and be a character or personality tucked away in a uniform.

[Doomkid]

Damn, I personally think the 'pansy' haircut they have on Worf looks pretty badass, tbh.

I'm also quick to forgive TNG's not-so-great episodes because of the charisma of the cast. They're just so damn likeable..

[geo]

For as much Shark jumping as the third season was, the last episode was captivating. In fact the entire fourth season has really turned the entire series around for me. I'm just as shocked as you are. Klingons, a new intro, Worf being out of place, Quark being used as bait, Jem Haddar and the Doctor's Hippocratic oath. Even old Jake played by the Candyman was surprisingly touching and emotional. Just when I thought the season was slowing down by pairing a Vajorin... Vaginan and a Cardasian... Cockdasian it was more interesting seeing the real life of Sysko's girlfriend moving in.

[Bucket]

Bajoran.
If you think the Cardassians are some twisted peeps now, wait till you see the shit Dukat gets up to in the last season.

[geo]

Bucket said:

Bajoran.
If you think the Cardassians are some twisted peeps now, wait till you see the shit Dukat gets up to in the last season.

Oh yeah it is spelled with a B. To be honest I don't think they're that twisted in this series. I hear how they are, but I just don't see it. They've been very humanized. It seems like the Bajorins are crazy bums talking about religion, but again you never see how bad things were. You only hear about it from one side. Flashback episodes would be good for that. They had one about a murder, but that's all.

I just saw the episode with the Defiant and the gas giant, fucking magnificent on a lot of levels. Its as if they had a completely different writing staff that gave a fuck.

[geekmarine]

DS9 has always been my favorite Star Trek series, and in fact, I'm watching it now. One of the weirdest things about the series, though, is the fact that it seems to embrace a post-9/11 attitude years before 9/11 actually happened. I think that's part of what I like about it, honestly - the show gets kind of dark, and actually addresses those darker elements as part of the theme of the show. It's just weird to realize this show was made in the 90s, but it anticipated the fallout from 9/11 or a similar attack.

[Aliotroph?]

Yeah! It's almost like terrorism, paranoia, war, and drama aren't new! Lots of TV would have done similar things before, but TV execs are a largely conservative bunch who took until the 80s to be comfortable showing toilets on screen. DS9 was definitely an innovative Trek, though. Exploring the weaknesses of the Federation is fun.

[Doomkid]

I just can't get into the whole "dark, gritty, more real" thing DS9 has going on. I mean it's seeming like an entertaining watch so far, but TNG is far better outlet for 'escapism', excuse the use of that stupid term. I think what I need to do from now on when watching other Treks is disconnect my TNG mind.

[geo]

This episode was just too hilarious not to get a screen grab of it



I've put off this episode for days after seeing the pic for it was Bashir nearly making out with Kira. Seemed like a holosweet episode and it is, but by god is it funny. I don't even care that pattern buffered people are now holograms.

Again this is the sort of bat shit crazy that must make it fun to be in these shows where anything can happen. Alternate universe? Done. Time travel? Done. Stuck in a hologram? Done. Two characters become one? Done.

[Aliotroph?]

That episode is comedy gold. DS9's writers were good at the holosuite thing.

[geo]

Why these two aren't on tour as a 2 man comedy act is beyond me.