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raymoohawk

thoughts about freedoom wolf stuff

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I strongly think that all the wolf stuff should be replaced with stuff that fits in with the rest of freedoom, none of it should represent anything from the real world. Instead of a hitler or politician, we should have a fictional character that could could give a sense back story for freedoom. Killing representations of real soldiers is not only a relic of franchises living in the past like COD, but is also a waste, why have a boring human design when you could have a cool monster, robot, cyborg, etc. All this would allow freedoom to actually put those resources to use and lets face it anyone whose trying to do a wolf mod is using their a texture pack and sprites, they wont limit to the stock doom wolf textures

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There is no reason for Freedoom's Wolf-replacement textures to be an Easter egg or otherwise clash with the rest of the content. The "they made a joke here, so we should make a similar joke there" logic is not appropriate or relevant to this project.

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Makes sense. The Freedoom secret levels aren't recreating the Wolfenstein theme, so there's no reason for the monster (ie. Wolf SS) to either.

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I quite like the idea of using Darknation's enemy sprite and textures, and doing two new secret maps using his dark comic book style. It'd be a cool extra, rewarding the player for finding the secret level by giving them something new to look at.

The existing hell-themed secret levels could be transplanted to Episode 3 of Phase 1.

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The project wants vanilla-doom-PWADs to be playable with Freedoom; hence trying to keep textures etc. consistent and similar to the originals. That holds for most of the Doom content, but I wonder if there's any need to do it for the Wolf stuff? Are there any good PWADs in Wolf theme? Are any of the Wolf textures used or usable in a "normal" PWAD? (I suspect some are). In other words, I think it's a good idea to replace the Wolf resources with an internally-consistent, but different theme, but possibly not making the bland stone or wood textures too different, as they might be used in "normal" PWADs.

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Keeping the textures compatible seems worthwhile - if we want new textures in some completely different style then there doesn't seem any reason why we can't just add entirely new ones.

But that doesn't mean that the secret levels have to be in the Wolf3D style. They can just be normal levels, or maybe something completely different. I think it's best to avoid the Wolf3D style entirely - it was just an in-joke for Doom II and there's no reason to retain it in Freedoom.

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I was thinking about it, and that's similar to my thoughts. For me, the best of both worlds would be to retain the Wolf3D textures for WAD compatibility and add some completely new textures (EG: Darknation's) for the secret levels. That would keep things interesting for the player while keeping with Freedoom's goal of PWAD compatibility.

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There are some relevant mods which feature Wolfenstein-themed levels (Doom II In Name Only, 1 Monster, several of pcorf's mods). There's also some levels that, without being Wolfenstein-themed, made use of Wolfenstein textures. Mouldy's Going Down made an inventive use of the Hitler portraits, using only the frame:

Spoiler

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We still need wolf patches for that kind of compatibility. Darknation can also make his mini-TC as our MAP32 secret map with extra resources. So we still get something special for map32 and maintain wolf pwad compat.

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raymoohawk said:

well at the very least lets have the monster and portraits not represent anyone from the real world.

They deliberately don't and a long time ago I encouraged textures without any Nazi symbolism, because 1). there are legal problems in some countries with that kind of material so it's easier just to avoid it, and 2). without the context of the Wolf3D easter egg it's kinda weird.

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ok thanks for claryfing that, i recall someone mentioning that the monster should be an actual soldier from a real military force, wich i think would be a bad idea

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fraggle said:

Keeping the textures compatible seems worthwhile - if we want new textures in some completely different style then there doesn't seem any reason why we can't just add entirely new ones.


sorry to derail conversation. does that mean we dont have to limit to the same number of textures as original games? and if so does that mean we trow in the silly textures i made a while ago?

like this ones:

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We need the usual textures for compatibility, but we can also add more. Our maps can be more unique with these extra textures.

Also that looks awesome.

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I think we can make several good textures out of the original high res.

I wonder if we should resurrect the high-res resources. We have a bunch of good artists lately and can start expanding them. There are several in the attic already.

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I like the painting. Gives the impression that whoever owns AGM has a lot of spare money to hang this expensive shit around.
And the fact that it depicts hell(?) is a nice nod to Doom.

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