More goodies from Romero (DoomEd source, maps, graphics)

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Gez said:

I'd really love a similar data dump for Heretic and Hexen.

So would I. Especially since Michael Raymond-Judy somewhat implied that there might have been a lot of cut maps in Heretic that could perhaps be floating around somewhere:

Michael Raymond-Judy said:
I think on average I could crank out a first run at a map in about 3 days, including textures and initial placements. Then it took a few more days (sometimes as much as a week) to tweak textures and items to make it balanced and pretty. Then the boss hated it so we made a new one :)

[Quasar]

Gez said:

I'd really love a similar data dump for Heretic and Hexen.

Strife would be interesting but it seems far less likely that any development material survived, unfortunately. Heretic and Hexen at least seem plausible.

(I'd particularly love unused Heretic and Hexen music.)

Given Night Dive Studios' failure to recover the material, I suspect the Strife dev material is out of any mortal's reach at this point.

There are rumors a certain rights holding LLC may have the complete source code and maybe even such assets, but the name of it even I don't know as it was discussed only under some type of NDA to which I was never a party.

[xbryan2000x]

I wonder about the DOOM maps being made into Quake maps from 1995
way before the release of QTEST1

QE1M5


DE1M5

[Krazov]

I wish there was Doom resources WAD that anyone could download, and as a mapper I could put it in requirements. WAD would have all the original data from TUD, D2 and FD, as well as all this unreleased stuff.

[Cire]

Quasar: Doesn't 3D Realms have a Strife beta of some kind on that old beta CD they've showed a screenshot of?

[scalliano]

Well, fuck me sideways! This is incredible!

[Buckshot]

xbryan2000x said:

I wonder about the DOOM maps being made into Quake maps from 1995
way before the release of QTEST1

QE1M5


DE1M5

ehhh... that's really reaching for simularities.

and if so... that level design change is kind of a step back from the original doom level.

[Dragonsbrethren]

So not only do we have one early The Spirit World (MAP22) but two (MAP27). Looks like Sandy took the better bits of the former and attached them to the latter. Pretty cool.

MAP22 is in no way a good map, but it has some cool bits that didn't make it to the final level. Neat texturing in places, too.

Early The Living End (MAP28) is interesting too. What little is there is almost fully detailed already.

[scifista42]

So, MAP01 used to have a white floor outdoor with SP_ROCK borders. That explains the white floor below the 0-height sky sectors in the final version.

[Fuzzball]

XCOPY said:

Well I compiled Doom II's maps, for anyone who cares.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/rdl50r86408aa95/d2maps.7z

(map01-map32)

extra maps (map33-map36, map33 being from the "old" folder)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/uzewda8g1xr4n99/d2extmaps.7z

Hate to be "that guy" but...I'm not seeing any changes? D:

[scifista42]

If you want to play the older versions of D2 maps, download Kins's d2temp.zip here: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1148345&p=47574941&viewfull=1#post47574941

[Fuzzball]

Ah thank you- just a bit confused why XCOPY had uploaded what is basically just Doom II maps untouched xD

[duh]

does that break any rule here? or even copyrights?

[scifista42]

Distributing a wad containing full commercial IWAD levels? I'd say that yes, it's a copyright infringement in theory. But as it's a compilation of sources posted by Romero, I guess it will be tolerated. (hopefully)

[axdoomer]

And you can't play these levels if you haven't bought Doom 2 because you need a full IWAD.

[fraggle]

XCOPY said:

Well I compiled Doom II's maps, for anyone who cares.
extra maps (map33-map36, map33 being from the "old" folder)

MAP36 appears to be idmap01.wad, a deathmatch level that I believe is the only PWAD ever released by id.

[Jewellds]

The date stamp of map35 (idmap01) is 12/12/94, which means it was made almost two years before it was released in '96.

[Fuzzball]

Well considering Refuelling Base was reworked from Doom, there has gotta be some ollllld stuff laying about!

[fraggle]

Finally got around to trying out some of the levels. The stuff from doom2map/temp is particularly interesting as it's obviously old versions of some of the Doom 2 maps. I compiled it into a WAD here, but you'll need ZDoom to play it.

Some thoughts:

MAP01: seeing the alternate intro section here is really weird after having seen MAP01 so many times.

MAP03: completely different texturing, similarly weird.

MAP06: almost unrecognizable but this is the same level, evidently it went through some pretty heavy modifications

MAP22: i don't recognize this map. abandoned/forgotten map?

MAP29: alternate/early version of MAP32, without keens?

MAP31: first Wolfenstein map, with chaingunners (from before the SS Nazi was added?)

MAP32: another version of MAP32 with some different line effects (pillar raise up when you enter the hall)

Regarding doom2map/notused, these all seem to be copies of the Doom 1 levels. There are a few minor changes but not much difference. It's not clear why these copies exist.

[Dragonsbrethren]

fraggle said:

MAP22: i don't recognize this map. abandoned/forgotten map?

It's sort of an early MAP28. Sandy ended up combining parts of it with the early MAP27 from the temp directory.

[LogicDeLuxe]

I wonder, if he still has more Doom 1 pre-release maps. Maybe, they worked some of the alpha maps into a playable state before they were abandoned. We've seen some pictures of unreleased versions of those some month ago.

[Havoc Crow]

Interesting how the memorable "floating water" thingy from the Bloodfalls we know and love was originally accompanied by something even crazier, a pyramid cut into thin air.

Weird how all the doors in MAP31 are one door...

[fraggle]

Some maybe-interesting thoughts from looking at the timestamps in DoomMaps:

Sorting by modification time is interesting. Of the canonical ExMy maps in there we see a bunch of backup files that date to December 10th 1993, presumably unchanged since the first v1.0 release. But that's just the backup files. Of the actual canonical .dwd files, most appear to date to August 31st 1994, the day before the v1.666 release. If my memory serves correctly there were no further changes to the Doom 1 levels after that release. But the timestamp on E3M9 shows it was modified as late as February 1st 1995, pretty late in Doom's release history. From a diff it looks like a single sector had its tag changed, not sure why.

The timestamps in DoomMapsSE seem to imply that the maps for Ultimate Doom were forked on March 29th, 1995. The same day, we see the changes were made to E1M1 and the timestamp was bumped for E1M3 (though the file itself seems unchanged?). The E4 levels have timestamps that date between April 5th-16th, implying that work took place on these over this period. Latest date in the directory is April 25th, implying development of Ultimate Doom took less than a month in total.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Here's the explanation for E3M9:

https://tcrf.net/Doom_(PC)/Revisional_Differences#E3M9:_Warrens

In v1.25, the code used to lower the bridge with the shotgun was updated to copy from the lowest neighboring sector when changing its sector floor flat and type. This makes the bridge sections appear to sink beneath the blood, rather than sitting on its surface.

This fix also introduced a crash into the level: A sector in the outside area to the right of the entrance was mistakenly given the same tag as one of the dropping bridge sections. In previous versions, this would only cause this sector's floor flat to be changed when the bridge was lowered, which was merely a cosmetic issue. The code change in 1.25, however, makes this sector read garbage for its type since there are no lower sectors surrounding it, and the game will crash when the player steps into a sector with an unknown type. Unlike in E3M1, where this could only be encountered by loading the v1.2 registered IWAD into one of the beta engines, the erroneous sector tag in this level was not corrected until v1.9.

[Jaxxoon R]

Gah, the day my computer is on the fritz is the day Romero appears.

On the bright side, the radical dude with the rocker hair has yet again done a radical thing. And now I can't wait to see these graphics in every wad under the sun :)

[Randy87]

Differences in the new doom.exe supplied with the maps.

F_Drawer lacks condition for episode 4 ENDPIC.
D_DoAdvanceDemo shows HELP2 instead of CREDIT after DEMO3 in shareware/registered mode.
A_BossDeath lacks boss conditions for episode 4.
WI_loadData has a seperate W_CacheLumpName loop for episode 4 WILV3 that only supports 6 maps.

[komojo]

This is a great piece of video game history. Thanks for sharing this! I also have to chime in and share my appreciation for how much old Doom stuff you've shared over the years.

Now I need to make a new map just so I can have an excuse to use these textures:

[Avoozl]

Half of those seem to be Wolf 3D textures, particularly the two on the left and the one in the middle-top.

[NiGHTMARE]

Very cool seeing all this stuff. There are a few textures that I was sure had been cut but apparently hadn't, such as a grey version of ASHWALL3, a completely red CRACKLE, a brown version of PANEL1, and a green version of ZIMMER5, amongst others.

On the other hand I was spot on about WOOD11 essentially being a mirrored WOOD10, crack-less versions of STONE4/5 (but oddly enough not STONE6/7) and TANROCK5, and a brown version of ZIMMER7.

Spoiler

Also, did anyone else noticed that the cut RW14_3 did end up getting used in the PSX port?

Buckshot said:

ehhh... that's really reaching for simularities.

and if so... that level design change is kind of a step back from the original doom level.

Actually, it *is* a conversion of Doom's E1M5, as proven by this archive which was uploaded by Romero himself. The archive contains the first ever publicly released screenshots of Quake, which includes the comparison shots above as well as three others from the same level and various others (including a couple in stunning "high-res" 640x480!).

I'm pretty sure that years ago, I saw screenshots of a couple of other Doom 1 levels that were converted during development, but it was in a magazine and I can't find them on the 'net anywhere.

BTW Q6.GIF in the archive is ample evidence that Quake had its own share of cut content, too...

[cybdmn]

NiGHTMARE said:
Actually, it *is* a conversion of Doom's E1M5, as proven by this archive which was uploaded by Romero himself.

I remember seeing those screenshots in an interview, where they told that they start converting Doom maps to QuakeTech to get familiar with the engine and tools at the very beginning of the Quake development.