New Chocolate Doom Compatible Wad Project

[TheNerdTurtle2]

This is the file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/09hq0u1bwih1bzn/EARTHONHELLV1.zip?dl=0
Okay, thanks for viewing this map! This is a sneak peek at my WAD that I'm going to be releasing probably sometime in May or June. I've been making maps for about 6 years now and this is my first public one. The aim of the WAD is to bring back a Doom2ish feel and keep 100% compatibility with Chocolate Doom. The name of the WAD is Earth On Hell but I want a suggestions for names as this is only temporary. I want feedback so I can improve the maps and make them as perfect as possible so feel free to open up the WAD in an editing software and look through everything. If you choose to play through this level please answer the following questions in the comments. Thanks a bunch!

QUESTIONS:

1.)Was there too little ammo or too much? (I tried to get it just right)
2.)Are the secrets too hard to find?
3.)What slight changes can I make to help the flow of the map?
4.)What ideas do you have for future maps?
5.)What is your overall opinion? Please be brutally honest!

ALSO!!!
I am interested in getting help for the WAD! If you are an experienced map maker and are interested in the project contact me and we will talk.

NOTES:
This is not the latest version of the map and there are a few bugs I have since patched. I will release the updated version if there is interest in it. I have also completed one other map and have started a third and if you get involved in the project I will share those files with you.

THANKS A TON!

EDIT: I just realized I posted this in Editing instead of wads and mods... opps

[joe-ilya]

1)The ammo was just fine.
2)I'd say they're too easy to find.
3)You can get rid of the orange mazes, replace the barons with knights, make it less cramped, put a little more health.
4)I dare to say this won't make it, so I won't even bother to map for this.
5)I think this has potential, it's just executed really badly(just like my lost maps)
6)FDA

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Hey thanks a lot for the input! I know the map isn'the anything spectacular but this is my first time where I really wanted to post something to the public so I pumped this out in two days. Anyway I really appreciate your feedback and was thinking some of the same things. I will probably remove the maze as it was not what was originally intended and I hate it, also the map is pretty cramped but I don't know if I can fix that :/ also what does fda stand for?

[scifista42]

FDA, recorded in Chocolate Doom 2.0 - it the end, the game crashed due to "IOperm_InstallDriver: OpenSCManager failed (5).", dunno what does it mean.

1. Ammo was imbalanced. Not too badly (nothing game-breaking), but you should realize that you need to consider more things than just the right amount of ammo so that the player doesn't run out of it. It's also about placement and type of the ammo. Even distribution is better than several bullet/shell boxes on one place and nearly no ammo elsewhere. Place appropriately powerful weapons to fight appropriately powerful monsters - the random BFG wasn't exactly fitting. And mainly, consider comfortable playability. Shooting into monsters is not fun by itself, there needs to be challenge, pacing, and something to keep player's interest. Throwing a bunch of pinky demons into the player's way doesn't threaten him, it just makes him spend needlessly long time shooting into them until they die. This actually applied to pretty much all fights in your map. They tended to be slow and/or lowly threatening, and as a result, fighting them was mostly tedious. Even fighting imps with a pistol is tedious. All in all, you better reconsider what makes a good balance.

2. The secrets were easy to find thanks to automap. Also, they were simple pushable walls with a square room behind. It's OK, but there are many more interesting ways how to hide secrets and how to shape them well.

3. As I said in #1, improve the flow by a more balanced weapon/ammo/monster placement, so that the player is challenged, but can kill the monsters fast enough before the fight gets boring. Ideally, don't just place a weapon in front of the player when he's about to be ambushed - give him freedom to handle combat in varied ways / strategies, instead of "Now use the shotgun!" Cramped corridors and mazes are generally harmful for gameplay, too.

4. Disregard joe-ilya and don't give up, you'll surely improve. Your effort is apparent. As for ideas? Pick a theme you're comfortable to map with, and stay loyal to the theme while making the map. Aim primarily for a balanced, varied, interesting and enjoyable gameplay. Accustomize your architecture to suit gameplay purposes, not vice versa. Give the player enough space to move, enough choices to make, and appropriate weaponry for the challenge he faces.

5. Amateurish map, but you have potential. I liked the computer details + presence of varied locations (maze, building, outdoors). Just get more familiar with principles of good (versus annoying/boring) playability. Good luck with that, keep up the good work! :)

*6. The rocky textures looked like mountains, but they were way too close to the player, so that he could see how much ugly they actually were, and it was underwhelming. I'd say, don't use them this way.

*7. Architecture was often orthogonal and symmetrical, and there wasn't enough height variation that would directly affect combat. Try to spice up your design by a variety of shapes, heights etc, to make it more interesting and less unprofessional looking.


EDIT: FDA is a First Demo Attempt. Demo is a recording of player's playthrough, which you can view on your computer if you have the exact same wad as the player has been recording on. You can view the demo by putting it to your Chocolate Doom directory along with the wad, and launch it from CMD or batch file using this command:

chocolate-doom -file EARTHONHELLV1.wad -playdemo <demoname>.lmp

[joe-ilya]

You don't start community projects by making speedmaps, you must make a promising map to start, or get a big following. Just restart your map if you feel it's too crampy.
FDA means : http://doomwiki.org/wiki/FDA

Anyway, this looks like this could fit into my own community project once you make it better: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/72486-consumed-earth-episode-cp/

[TheNerdTurtle2]

I forgot to mention that this is going to be one of the last maps in the WAD that is why the BFG is present and some others aren't such as the double shotgun. I thought the mountains looked good excepted in the first room and the other small skybox, but I wanted other opinions. Thanks both of you for the feedback would you be interested in the other map or should I finish a few more first?

[joe-ilya]

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

would you be interested in the other map or should I finish a few more first?

What do you mean?

[gaspe]

I agree on what the others have already said. And I add this: those mountains were really ugly imo, you'd better change the sky. Try to be more consistent with the detail and the theme (for example the bfg room is very good and than you have bland places like the red/blue key rooms). If you plan to make an episode (or whatever) with more levels you'd better think of the progression (bfg in first map, come on).

[TheNerdTurtle2]

My question is are the mountains ugly in the outdoor sections or just the small room? Also read my other post where I mention this is going to be one of the last maps so you will have all weps except bfg at this point

[Memfis]

Very cute\clever idea with using these mountains separatly from the sky, I love it. I noticed you aren't using "block monster" lines and the "deaf" flag at all, I guess you don't know about them? They can be very useful in arranging combat scenarios: instead of all monsters hearing you and grouping in one place, you can set up ambushes and stuff. I recommend learning how to use them. It's actually a little more complicated than it sounds: to prevent monsters from hearing you, you need two "block sound" lines rather than one. And "deaf" doesn't really make them deaf, but instead prevents them from approaching you until they notice you. Try experimenting with this.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

joe-ilya said:

What do you mean?

basically are you interested in my other maps in this wad? I can upload when I get home today

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Memfis said:

Very cute\clever idea with using these mountains separatly from the sky, I love it. I noticed you aren't using "block monster" lines and the "deaf" flag at all, I guess you don't know about them? They can be very useful in arranging combat scenarios: instead of all monsters hearing you and grouping in one place, you can set up ambushes and stuff. I recommend learning how to use them. It's actually a little more complicated than it sounds: to prevent monsters from hearing you, you need two "block sound" lines rather than one. And "deaf" doesn't really make them deaf, but instead prevents them from approaching you until they notice you. Try experimenting with this.

I've been making maps for 6 years and I know all of this. I usually give every monster the deaf check. But I didn't want any to have it. I forgot about block monster, that could be really helpful for stopping monsters from teleporting. Thanks!

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Memfis, for example I wanted the imps in the ambush by the red door to be active so when you got the yellow keys they would already walk towards you. Also the Sargents were either deaf or I had two block sounds in between them. But I have problems with monsters opening doors so I will remember to use some block monster lines.

[Memfis]

Oops, I meant to say "block sound" there, not "block monster". Of course you don't have to use it all the time, for example the maze works excellently here: all imps hear you and approach you from different directions, it's kind of scary and cool.

To make imps aware of the player even before he even takes the key, you could make these doors have ceiling height just 1 unit above the floor, that way they would hear him beforehand.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Thanks for the one unit tip, I've never heard it before

[scifista42]

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

My question is are the mountains ugly in the outdoor sections or just the small room?

Everywhere, I would say.

Also, I've noticed tutti-frutti glitch on stairs in the computer room, and bars clipping into the floor in the same room. Both problems can be seen in the demo I've posted. To fix tutti-frutti, don't use step textures on higher steps than the texture height is, because only textures that are 128 units tall can tile vertically properly. To fix the bars sunken into floors, either change light value or floor height on one side of the bars - as long as there's a difference at least 1 unit, they will display properly.

[gaspe]

About the mountains... The idea was nice, but they really look like props of a poor theater... my suggestions are these:
1)place them in a sector with a lower floor, and "hide" that sector behind one that borders the area where the player can move, the point is "don't show to the player where they actually stand"
2)just replace the sky

Both are easy to do and will work well. You can also make the scenery for the outdoor areas/views (you draw it with sectors, like a part of the map), but its hard and long to do.

Imo it was very easy to be a last slots map.

Anyway keep going!

joe-ilya said:

Anyway, this looks like this could fit into my own community project once you make it better...

topkek

[TheNerdTurtle2]

I knew about the tutti frutti on the stairs and the bar clipping. Those are both fixed in a later version but I didn't know the mountains looked that bad :/ okay so I'm going to work on this map talking into account everything you guys have said and will post this map along with the second one on saturday

[TheNerdTurtle2]

gaspe said:

topkek

... I don't know whether I should be insulted or not but remember this is my first time hearing other people's opinions and learning what they like.

[scifista42]

No, you shouldn't, it was directed towards joe-ilya as a response to his unnecessarily begrudging post and inappropriate self-promotion, I suppose.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

It's funny because I was expecting to be demotivated if I got ripped apart by people but I'm loving the advice and tips I'm getting. I'm feeling really motivated to edit this map. I'm going to fix the mountains, delete the maze, and try to make the first few rooms less claustrophobic. I will also amp up the difficulty! And try to add in a few secrets that challenge the player a little more. Thanks everyone that contributed to the conversation!

[gaspe]

scifista42 said:

No, you shouldn't, it was directed towards joe-ilya as a response to his unnecessarily begrudging post and inappropriate self-promotion

This ^ I didnt mean to offend anyone. Btw about the mountains its just my opinion, other people may like the way you made them. If you have some other idea please keep going with them! Good luck ;)

[TheNerdTurtle2]

gaspe said:

This ^ I didnt mean to offend anyone. Btw about the mountains its just my opinion, other people may like the way you made them. If you have some other idea please keep going with them! Good luck ;)

basically I did my mountains a different way on the other map leading into this one. I'll post screen shots when I get home so you can tell me what you think

[scifista42]

One of the main problems with the mountains is that the texture is very gritty. It may look OK when used as a sky texture, but ugly if scaled down and placed as a map object. The other problem is how they're distinctly paper-thin, easily noticeable if the player changes position while looking at them. You allow the player to see them from way too short distance. Another problem is that the player already knows them from the sky texture, where they stand for giant mountains, and now he can see them as small boulders next to the map's bounds. This looks very artificial (unnatural + forced), too.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Okay so because of the overwhelming hatred of the mountains haha I'm going to cut them, except I'm going to keep them in the outdoors part outside of the red door and at the end of my other map. Any suggestions for how to fix those?

[TheNerdTurtle2]

I posted a new version in a new thread