The DWmegawad Club plays: Valiant

[cannonball]

I am 25 and I got the message first time :)
I liked the fact that the mancubus could get himself in some serious hot water with respect to infighting, this makes the killing of the other monsters even more essential.

[AD_79]

catch up time go

MAP05: Aggrovator

Very much like MAP02 and 03 in terms of looks. The main difference is that this map is a lot more brutal, I died a few times here though it was generally being dumb that killed me.

MAP06: Engineering Disaster

Now this is cool. The damn dam broke! Very open and somewhat non-linear map (you do need either the blue or the red key to get the yellow), there's a lot of stuff flying through the air and that means a lot of projectiles to dodge.

MAP07: The Mancubian Candidate

THIS here is a candidate for my favourite use of tag 666 that I've seen so far. Keep the mancubus alive! He's running for president and you need to let him live so he can get elected and manage this country. Ok, so maybe that's not how it goes but it's what I want to believe. The map itself is pretty simple, at least in terms of layout, though the gameplay is fun as usual. The ending of the map feels a bit unnecessary, really, though it's not bad. Excellent episode finale.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 04 -- Moonlit Stroll - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Ah, "River", seems to be one of the more popular Stewboy tracks, and suits this laid-back midnight constitutional quite well. I'm all about "Drilling by Night", myself, we'll see if I'm lucky enough to encounter that one again in Valiant after happening across it in Resurgence recently.

Anyhow, this is quite a laid-back level as I said, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's slow or uneventful, more of a 'jog' than a 'stroll', really. Well, at least at first: the setting is ostensibly an outbuilding of some sort, of the same grey concrete/yellow neon cast as the rest of the complex's buildings we've seen thus far, but the real star of the show, and the source of the level's name, is action in the damp rocky terrain around the building. The early outdoor area is a simple knot of footpaths and ledges, crisscrossing and interconnecting in and around a few stony spars, which serves as the venue for some very catch-as-catch can skirmishing against a motley variety of opponents, with reinforcements beaming in at a couple of points. The area accommodates many different playstyles, being spacious and flowing enough for headless-chicken kamikaze charges, and containing enough vantages and momentary chokepoints for more more conservative players to effectively wrangle a turkey-shoot. It's very simple, but entertaining enough; I think that the way most of the monsters are introduced into the area via teleportation synergizes well with its open layout, engendering some variability and a sense of motion into the brief spate of combat. This contrasts with the second outdoor area with some forgotten crates, which is not nearly as kinetic (and thus not as much fun) by dint of A) the enemies all being pre-placed and B) several of them being stuck up on said crates. Incidentally, that's probably the level's biggest drawback, even though it's short it definitely seems to peter out after the introduction of the arachnorbs at about the halfway point, with a particularly underwhelming yellow key 'finale'....really seems like the area should've been repopulated one more time or something, I dunno.

Ah, but those arachnorbs, right? I quite like them myself, largely because they seem like a natural addition to the original enemy roster, which I've long felt could've used more variety in flying monsters. Their attack is painful but not particularly difficult to deal with, but their mobility and apparent penchant for appearing in groups will make all the difference in later maps, I imagine--perhaps I got lucky here (or perhaps I have infinitely-tall actors to thank), but one of the groups didn't path towards me very effectively and so I was afforded a very straightforward introductory fight with the other group. They seem to have about as much HP as a lost soul, but because they leave a corpse when they die (read: they plummet out of the sky when killed), they are infinitely more satisfying to dispatch, especially with SSG shots. Sometimes it's the little things, y'know? Interestingly it seems they can also cinematically spawn from killed arachnatrons, it's a good thing I was looking right at the last 'tron in the level when this happened or the new 'norb might've made a mess of me. This latter mechanic is certainly going to take some getting used to, but still, I'm glad these guys are here, and I only hope I get a chance to clear a whole fleet of them out of the sky with a full minigun belt at some later point. :D

[Demon of the Well]

Map 05 -- Aggrovator - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
A very straightforward 'zone of influence' sort of engagement in this one, featuring a couple of elevated command modules linked by a couple of pneumatic bridges, initially sunken into their bays. It's a three-key map, but in keeping with the majority of this episode thus far the map is nevertheless a very brief engagement--I can only assume it was made during the section of the project's development where Skillsaw was still trying his hand at the speedmapping craze before eventually saying "fuck that" and allowing himself more breathing space (my hero!). Anyway, as it goes you need the red key to raise the aforementioned bridges, which double as lifts and enable you to get the blue and yellow keys (one from each module), which are needed to pass the neapolitan triple-latch sealing the exit. The ground area is spacious enough and the modules themselves enough of a convenient obstruction of enemy firing lanes for you to handle most of the incidental combat easily no matter what approach you choose--you can run around and fight in their midst, kite some of the problem elements over to a relatively quiet corner of the yard to deal with them in peace, whatever you like (I ended up using a combination of these and other approaches without having to really give the matter much thought). The spicier bits are the three key-traps, which all share the design principle of surrounding you with hazards to a greater or lesser degree; some of them might seem nasty on paper, but they're all really easy to see coming, which in itself mostly defangs them, "knowing is half the battle" as the saying goes. Ironically, the first trap, which uses the weakest monsters, is probably the most dangerous--the modified pinkies can swamp you in an instant with their enhanced speed and quicker attacks, so I was lucky my intuition saw me holding the plasma gun when the trap triggered.

Aesthetically, it's more of the grey concrete mountain-base (the episode certainly has a strong sense of thematic identity) as seen in the prior maps, although the greater prevalence of the dark riveted metal brace texture from the early part of map 01 and the slightly more pronounced aspect of shadowing from the vine-grown overhangs between the modules lends it a subtly more militaristic (as opposed to purely industrial) look. The real difference isn't so much in how it looks as in how it feels to move around in it, though, as it's the only layout to this point that's based on free-standing discrete buildings with a simple field of playable space around them. Again, the glimpses of tree-covered mountains in the distance are a nice finishing touch, as are the glowing neon signal-beacons.

[Zulk RS]

MAP02: No Rush Skill: Hurt me plenty

Kills: 100%
Items: 100%
Secrets: 66%

Deaths:

1) Got killed by a revenant rocket again.

This map is also really cool looking. I especially like the powered up weapons. The shoot-able switch secret is really well done.

[Zulk RS]

MAP03: Tiers of Pain

Kills: 100%
Items: 90%
Secrets: 0%

Deaths: 3 (All at the hands of imp hordes during ambushes.)

The fact that really bothered me about this map was that you come under enemy fire and are ambushed from behind the moment you start playing. It was an annoyance. Other than that, the rest of the map was pretty darn good. I think I'll try some of the architectural style used here.
Ammo is a little tight, but there's plenty of health around.
A nice, fast-paced map that I enjoyed.

[mouldy]

Map07 - “The Mancubian Candidate”

Clever gimmick, though it can be a bit frustrating if you are battling to survive while some monster is happily shooting the mancubus to shreds. The arachnotron ambush gave me the most hassle, requiring a bit of luck to avoid death by plasma crossfire, self administered rockets or enthusiastic mancubus. A quick battle with a cyberdemon in the chamber of motion sickness and there we have it, the end of episode 1. Great stuff.

Regarding the "dont kill the manc" hint, the first time I played it I figured that picture was just some scenery and ignored it, and it took maybe a couple of deaths to realise what was going on. Now it seems bloody obvious, but I don't care that much if a gimmick map kills me quickly a few times until I work out whats going on. I've made enough of those maps myself.

[NuclearPotato]

Fell a little bit behind; I'll cover the rest of Episode 1 today, and tackle the first two E2 levels tomorrow.

MAP06-Engineering Disaster

With a title like that, you'd expect some sort of power plant setting, but instead we have a spacious cityscape. This has been the hardest level thus far, with multiple deaths in the opening area alone. I didn't even bother trying to get all kills or secrets, due to how hard it was just surviving. Standout encounter was the massed Revenant closet on the red key.

82% kills, 1/3 secrets


MAP07-The Mancubian Candidate

FUN. Gimmick is great, level is challenging (though not quite on the level of Engineering Disaster), and Cyber fight is optional. didn't really bother with finding secrets on this level either, but the level's fun enough that they aren't missed.

92% kills, 0/2 secrets

[NuclearPotato]

Actually, check that. I had way more time than I thought I have, so I'll just do MAP08 now!

MAP08-Bushwacked

Fairly easy going start to E2. Had to do a lot more Zombieman punching than I normally go for when I play at the start. The level proper has a remarkably different style compared to the first episode. Things got surprisingly easy once I got past the opening section and got some chaingun ammo, though I won't be surprised if I end up burning through everything I got once I get into the later levels (or more likely, this next level, judging from the small sneak peek I got before I quit out). Standout encounter was a tie between the area beyond the blue door, and the final encounter behind the red door.

92% kills, 0/1 secrets

[Magnusblitz]

MAP08: Bushwhacked
100% kills, 0/1 secret

So, we move away from the nice blue skies and grey techbases into the red sky and brown Plutonia-esque area. This level starts out with a bit of a mad dash from all the heavier monsters (arachnatrons/mancubi) on the ledges, gathering keys and making the way around the map. Once the heavier artillery is acquired, get to move around the top ledges and clear everything out (thankfully, not much backtracking to clear out the enemies). While the start is good, things do start to get a wee dull in the middle once the rocket launcher and plasma gun are acquired, since the fairly linear path and narrow ledges mean that it's little more than a case of 'hold down fire button, aim at enemy'. The last arena provides a bit of an interesting battle, running around in circles avoiding the aerial harassment while waiting for the crushers to kill the revenants. FWIW, the lift to the crusher-run rose the first time (but I died) and failed to lift after that, not sure how common that bug is.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 06 -- Engineering Disaster - 104% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
This one's a fairly intuitive sandbox-style map with a strong sense of setting, refreshing after the handful of small, highly abstract Quikrete-base (speed?)maps comprising the bulk of the episode. The setting is a partially-flooded mountain 'cityscape', although the low number of actual buildings plus the UAC billboard in the distance suggests it was more like a corporate finance center or the like, or maybe the flooding is just so severe that only the tips of the very tallest buildings remain above the waterline. As far as theme and aesthetic qualities (e.g. color) go, this pretty openly references the 'Flood Zone' level from Duke3D's 'Shrapnel City' episode, although if memory serves the music track is from the big waste processing map near the end of its shareware episode. In execution it's very much its own thing, though, largely by necessity; of course, Valiant's target spec doesn't include underwater segments (and even those ports that can do them don't tend to pull them off very convincingly, IMO), so instead Skillsaw turns his eye to the skyline, having the player ride lifts and take a lot of flying leaps from rooftop to rooftop or from tower to cliff to make progress through the disaster zone. While the level is shorter and more compact than its appearance (esp. the nifty opening shot) may suggest, it's still a pretty meaty chunk of action, with the welter of freestanding buildings and discrete side-areas serving as prime real estate for one of Skillsaw's very favorite progression tropes, that being the three-key scavenger hunt (e.g. get all the keys and bring them back to one important location in order to finish). It seems that reaching the yellow key requires having one of the other two first, so it's not fully non-linear, but there's plenty of room for exploration and improvisation as far as itinerary is concerned. I ended up collecting the keys in the order blue-yellow-red, which worked well enough, although next time I play the map I think I'll shoot for red-yellow-blue, so that I can use the BFG from the yellow key lot to more elegantly handle the spiders' nest.

On that point, fairly robust monster population aside, this isn't really a difficult or demanding map, given the nature of the terrain--there's so much room to run and dodge that you're almost impossible to corner (save perhaps the spiders' nest, although even that can be fled fairly easily if you don't panic), and can avoid taking too much chip-damage from distant/elevated enemies by adopting a general policy of not holding still for more than a few seconds at a time, especially since hitscan-type enemies are relatively rare in comparison to projectile-throwers. Incidentally, I'm still not having many real problems dealing with the new imps, although the expansive nature of this map did lead me to the realization that the real threat to their attack is not its speed or the fact that there are two independently-aimed projectiles per cycle, but simply that the fireballs are quite a bit smaller than those of classic imps and thus, more difficult to spot when they're flying at you from great distances and/or unusual angles. Getting good weapons requires a bit of legwork (I think there's more than one rocket launcher, though), but both healing and ammo are available in abundance, so there's not much need for a great deal of caution or conservatism in approach, regardless of the high number of projectiles likely to be flying around at any given moment. In some senses, the thing placement is perhaps a little too kind to the player--e.g. the megasphere before the spiders, the sheer amount of cells the map shits at you in the yellow lot, the presence of the BFG, etc.--but I suppose it's early days yet, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy firing that BFG shot at the fleet of 'norbs which materializes to protect the red keycard.

Fun little adventure, much more to my personal taste in terms of scale and traversal style than the last few bitesized base maps were.

Map 07 -- The Mancubian Candidate - 103% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA
The level's gimmick seemed quite intuitive to me, for the record. Perhaps the monitor graphic alone might not have communicated the idea very clearly, but taken in consideration along with level's name and the setup of the main play area it seemed pretty straightforward. That being the case, I must admit that I expected to dislike the level (I know, I know, give DotW a Dead Simple remix and he bitches about it, give him something that's not that at all and he still bitches about it, can't win)....I like to think I'm pretty open/receptive to a lot of experimental or concept-driven map ideas in PWADs, but babysitting a hapless and uncooperative NPC is about the last thing in the world I want to do when I play Doom. My initial misgivings were mostly unfounded, though, this level's really not such a chore.

For those who may be simply reading (rather than playing) along, the basic idea of the map is this: the main play area features a single mancubus stuck on an elevated platform in a very central and very exposed position, with vantage-laden cliffs and caves surrounding it on all sides. Given his position, said mancubus is likely to incite the ire of other monsters in the area (unless the player manages the scenario effectively), either by accidentally hitting them while firing at the player, or by retaliating after unwittingly intercepting an attack from the periphery initially aimed at the player. The catch is, if His Portliness dies, presumably something very bad happens (with the map 07 special as the behind-the-scenes mechanism, of course).....I can only assume that 'something' involves the ominous zoo of restrained arch-viles shown to the player before the main event begins.

Anyway, as long as you don't stubbornly struggle against the concept itself (which, depending on your personal playstyle, may involve temporarily suspending your usual instincts, granted), it's not too difficult to pull this off. I reckon the key is to be proactive, and minimize Fatty's chances of getting into a scuffle by attacking each successive group of monsters on the periphery head on, eliminating them quickly and insistently focusing their attentions on yourself rather than giving them a chance to lose patience with the bumbling 'cubus and his barrage of errant fireballs. I think I let him fight some imps on the cliffs at one point--seemed like a battle he could decisively win--but generally I tried to kite most monsters (and their firing lines) well away from him. In movement terms, I guess it might help to sort of think of him as an arch-vile rather than a mancubus, in the sense that if you stay out of his line of sight as much as possible, not only will he be less likely to start a fight with his own attacks, but he'll be far less likely to intercept attacks meant for you originating from across the way. The trickiest part is probably the wave of 'trons that spawns when you hit the blue switch, since they'll wreck him in seconds if he pisses one (or worse, more than one) of them off, so I spent a few moments there flailing violently around in a semi-panic while burning through all of my minigun ammo to try and take as many of them off the board as quickly as possible (mostly so I could reach the inner edge and intercede if need be, although everything worked out fine without my having to save his ass). Other than that, no sweat, really.

Oh, uh, I guess there's also a little cyberdemon showdown at the end after you're done futzing about with the main gimmick. Pretty perfunctory, with the only real twist being the eminently correct usage of specters (you heard me Dobu) at the outset to try to make you trip and 'splode, either at the cyb's hands or your own. Feels quite tacked-on, to be honest, though I can certainly understand that Skillsaw wanted to have the first episode conclude with some sort of climactic encounter, beyond unceremoniously dispatching Senator Chunkstuffs after flipping the safety switch.

[scifista42]

Map08 - “Bushwacked”

Visually solid, balance was well polished too. Idea-wise, this map was extremely generic and basic, with one exception: The curved downward catwalk. It looked cool at first sight, but I disliked it for one reason: Going over the catwalk path was not the optimal strategy. The optimal strategy turned out to be jumping off for a chaingun, sniping chaingunners and imps, then retrying - or alternatively, rushing forward while skipping parts of the catwalk wherever possible. Trying to go along the catwalk to pick up goodies and fight monsters at the same time was practically impossible, whenever I tried it, I either died, or fell down and lose way too much health.

Gameplay in this map gave me an impression of a glorified speedmap: Highly setpiece based and straightforward, but none of the setups or ideas stood out as good, they were "acceptable" at most.

This map introduced Lost Souls and Pain Elementals, rather dully, though.

Despite all of that, the map was still somewhat fun to play, thanks to skillsaw's ability to give a perfect form to any content. But out of the maps I've played so far, MAP08 was the weakest one.

[mouldy]

Map08 - “Bushwacked”

Quite a full-on start to the 2nd episode, forced to immediately run into the unknown, where everything is shooting at you from some far away shelf (not that you have the ammo to fight back anyway), and the only cover appears to involve jumping into poisoned blood. I like gameplay that makes you run for your life. I'm not so keen on some of the set-ups here where you have to negotiate a hostile obstacle course like one of those tv shows. Crossing the winding catwalk while dodging the fireballs is an overt example but it all feels a little bit contrived when you have a very set path with various gauntlets of crossfire to weave through. There is enough health to allow for some pretty clumsy playing though. The final room is probably a lot more hazardous with infinite height, for me I could run around the perimeter in relative safety. Then one final obstacle course challenge through the crushers to open the exit. Kind of a doom version of Takeshi's Castle.

[Pirx]

Map07 - The Mancubian Candidate

With that name it got my attention from reading the development thread already. It's map07, so mancubi must be used in a way or another. In a creative way here, as there's a single manc in this map, stuck on a tall pillar, and you have to keep him alive. Or all those archviles you see caged in the beginning get teleported on your head. This was quite intuitive after seeing the "no mancubus corpse" sign in the beginning and the cages complete with barrels to kill the viles when the task is done, i figured. Incidentally we had this theme last month in doom2 reloaded's map18 where archviles were unleashed on the player if he made noise before reaching the armory.

Also, you must keep him from dying due to infighting. Meaning you have to clear the ledge surrounding the manc's pillar aggressively as the manc is very likely to get into a fight. If you camp and snipe, he's most likely fried bacon before you reach the lift to the cellar. Said cellar looks like it was tacked onto the main arena for a showdown with a cyberdemon, but there's enough room and plasma to make this much less hectic compared to the fight on the ledge.



Map08 - Bushwhacked

We leave the overrun base theme and start climbing a canyon under a red sky with a blood river flowing below. Again, you have to move quickly until you get some weapons (shotgun, SSG, rockets) as you start in the view of several mancs, arachnotrons and orbs guarding the ledge. There's some fighting on thin rocky catwalks involved (which I managed well by just walking forward and ignoring the fire, given I suck at such setups).

The rocket launcher is found at the river below, complete with an ambush by specters and an archvile.
Once you get the rocket launcher with lots of ammo provided, the map becomes a pretty linear walking forward and shooting rockets, mostly at the mancs on the canyon ledge. Sounds simple, but it's still fun.

The path ends in an arena where you basically have to circle a crusher in a blood pool with revenants on it until the revs are dead, while shooting pain elementals and arachnorbs. Guess what, the lost souls were the biggest problem.

Visually it's Plutonia styled, with skull doors, blood and rusty metal, and much more use of vegetation, which gives the map a very appealing look.

[Breezeep]

MAP07 - “The Mancubian Candidate” Kills: 100% Deaths: 1

Well, thanks for the warning, guys! Now I know that you aren't supposed to kill the mancubus until you press a button that allows you to kill the mancubus. Overall, it was a decent map. I liked the ending part with the cool lighting effects. I did something similar to that in my map for 50 Shades of Graytall. Episode 1 done, onto the next one.

MAP08 - “Bushwhacked” Kills: 100% Deaths: 0

...And now with the Mancubian Candidate and the mysterious project VALIANT out of the way, we start off episode 2 in a blood canyon. Good stuff as usual: good gameplay and visuals.

[scifista42]

Map09 - “14 Angrier Archviles”

Like the previous map, this one was heavily setpiece based - but this time, I liked the map a lot. The setpieces were actually imaginative and fun. Theme was flawlessly coherent and immersive. This map finally used Aracnorbs in a way that I truly liked, as normal enemies with efficient placement (instead of appearing in hordes in large areas merely to keep the player moving), and they even fitted the map thematically. The area with perpetually raising pillars with items was a cool reuse of the Vanguard idea, spiced up with a damaging floor and only 1 radsuit, less snipers around the pit and more enemies inside (the imps). The Pyro Knights are posing a decent threat with those hyperfast projectiles fired early in the attack animation, it was annoying when they attacked me for the first time, but I'm getting used to it and I consider them great enemies.

[Zulk RS]

MAP04: Moonlit Stroll

Kills: 98%
Items: 98%
Secrets: 0% (I'm really bad at finding secrets :P)

Deaths:
1) Died from the enemy ambush near the start of the wad.
2) Died at the hands of a flying Arachnotron. I did not expect to see one of those here.

The music is really nice here. The visuals are as pleasing as ever. I really liked the interconnected maze bit on at the beginning. I also liked how you don't come under enemy fire the moment you enter the map.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP09: 14 Angrier Archviles
99% kills, 1/2 secrets

Heavily set-piece based, though the layout does a good job of hiding this. I could've done without the AVs constantly teleporting in/out on the approach to the cathedral, as the good looks alone of the walk are amazing. Had a pretty fun "oh shit moment" when the first pyro knights walked in... "hey, that's not an Arch-Vile!" Like the Aracnorb, they're another good example of a new monster that is well-designed because it understands what the greatest advantage of the player is - mobility. So he has an attack requiring good use of that mobility (a super-fast multi-hit projectile) while smartly keeping his HP around regular hell-knight level.

As for the rest of the map, definitely designed in little setpieces to make the Arch-Viles as annoying as possible, whether that's placing them on ledges to snipe the player while he searches for cover, or nearby a large threatening pile of corpses. They can certainly take a few tries (especially the ones that require finding cover both from an AV sniper but also from a horde of enemies in your face) but never in a way that feels unfair, so, good design here. If I have to end with some complaints, the northeast area with the switch-shooting was a little dull, and there's also my typical "anti-climax" complaint of having nothing at the exit after gathering the keys (I had one enemy left, though it might be a boss, but guess he was in a secret).

[Demon of the Well]

Map 08 -- Bushwhacked - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Very ugly demo for this one. I don't actually die, but I make just about every crass mistake in the book at one point or another--repeated platforming failure, soaking unbelievable amounts of easily-avoided damage from the toxic blood, laboriously sniping at monsters I could've easily fought head-on later if I'd only been paying more attention to the layout, Good at Doom (TM) moments, you name it. At least I didn't fail alone, though, at one point an unfortunate arch-vile found himself lodged into a mancu-roll in a most embarrassing way (read: -cl 11 allowed him to resurrect the manc 'inside' of himself). On the whole, not a particularly strong showing from any party involved, and that includes Valiant itself--earlier maps have been variously more to my taste or less so depending on style, but this is the first one I'd say I didn't much care for on the whole. Part of this is probably just because it allowed me so many opportunities to embarrass myself, I'm sure, but nevertheless I'll try to explain.

As an episode opener, 'Bushwhacked' certainly checks the right boxes. Apart from the pronounced aesthetic shift from the pleasant mountains of Earth(?) to some grim alternate dimension where the ruin-studded land is literally watered with blood (amazing how much of a difference in feel something that is essentially a palette-swap can make, eh?), it also does a good job of getting things off to a running start by placing the player in a formidable crossfire situation from the word go, with no way to make any real progress without braving the wrath of the hostile fauna to get a hold of decent starting kit and the first of three skullkeys. While the mountainous paths and chunky building architecture are very similar in contour and style to the terrain and bases in the first episode, actually playing through this map feels quite distinct from anything that's come before, largely a function of its strangely 'oldschool' arrangement. In layout terms, this is very much a hubspoke, although that's not immediately obvious by looking at the overhead map. Basically, each key is found in a sort of gimmicky setpiece area, and so progression through the map is essentially a linear tour of these different ideas, sort of like living out the inevitable 'training' montage of any given military spoof/comedy. I say that because combat is not really what defines most of the gameplay here--even the initial crossfire is something you simply escape from rather than manage/subdue--nor is exploration; it's more like being presented a series of wacky obstacle courses to run, where the real to-do is simply in navigating the environment, ala the climb/mantle track for the blue skullkey, the long serpentine slide to the yellow skullkey, or the simple crusher-platform gauntlet in the final area. There's something very video-gamey about this that doesn't appeal to me, and while I can't claim that the map doesn't have a clear idea what it wants to be (it clearly wants to be a physical fitness exam!), I don't think its different segments hang together very well, perhaps because there's so little on offer other than the aerobics, and its presentation/framing of the gimmickry is so baldfaced.

There are monsters all over the place, of course, but most of the time they're used less like bloodthirsty beasts and more like a gallery of hecklers that hurl rotten tomatoes at you while you're running the hamster-wheel or doing the monkey-bars or whatever other physical task your current setpiece demands. Combat with them is seldom very satisfying, perhaps because it's seldom the point--they are often placed 'in the bleachers' around a given course, at height/distance sufficient to making fighting them slow, inefficient, and viscerally unrewarding (naturally, to discourage you from trying to do away with their interference while you concentrate on the main task, which makes logical sense given the level's priorities). The exception to this is the third leg, for the red skullkey, where for a change the monsters ARE the obstacles (rather than the terrain), acting like fleshy hurdles that obstruct your passage through the narrow, linear path. There is a certain artfulness to the way this is handled as far as mapflow is concerned--e.g. the monsters you encounter on this third path are by and large none other than the hecklers from earlier, and so doing away with them face-to-face while revisiting earlier areas from a different perspective feels like a neat and tidy dissolution of loose ends--but as far as combat goes it's almost a pure crass grind, literally 'hold down the trigger while strolling forward for a few minutes', with the only wrinkle being the chaingunners on posts early on, easily dispatched with rocket-tosses.

I guess I'm trying to say that the map doesn't seem very 'well-rounded' to me, hanging its hat entirely on a handful of half-baked (if thematically cohesive) gimmicks, with very drab action during the brief part of the map where things are framed more in conventional Doom terms. Best thing I can say for it is that it does make you run around and sweat a bit, but obstacle courses tend to do that, after all.

[Capellan]

The mancuvile menage was pretty funny.

I'm enjoying the FDAs. Hope they keep coming :)

Props to skillsaw for the arachnorbs - they're one of the best realised new monsters I've seen in a Doom wad.

[Demon of the Well]

Yeah, the arachnorbs seem to be polling pretty well. It's because they're so damned satisfying to kill, tellin' ya.

Map 09 -- 14 Angrier Arch-Viles - 112% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
This is much more to my taste. Again, an iteration of the three-key scavenger hunt, this time set in a profane temple brooding in the lee of a bloodsoaked ravine. As Magnusblitz says, the map is crafted almost entirely out of setpieces, with even the pregame runup to the fane's entrance scripted for cinematic effect (my clumsy ass was looking the other way when the pyrodemons were given their visual introduction, incidentally). While I suppose it's similar to the map I just got done panning in that respect, the difference is that this one is all about fast, freewheeling combat scenarios, where the forces of Hell try to defeat Doomguy with a wide variety of ambushes, snares, and multi-prong attacks (with arch-viles as the star players, naturally) instead of trying to traumatize him into giving up by forcing him to relive his middle school PE classes.

Variety in the context of thematic unity is key in this case; each major encounter uses one or more arch-viles as a keystone element which, in concert with the different physical features of each battlefield, lends a distinct sub-theme to each fight. For example, the first battle in the underground entrance hub features an element of time pressure, releasing more and more enemies into the area at set intervals, meaning a slow/overly cautious player may quickly be overwhelmed if they don't attack aggressively. Likewise, the pernicious deadfall snare en route to the yellow key challenges the player to keep a cool head and use the constantly cycling metal pillars as cover from the sadistic duo of viles that turn up on the edge of the pit in hopes of watching Doomguy slowly dissolve into the acidic ichor. Perhaps most dangerous is the optional megasphere fight, which combines both cover pressure and claustrophobia into a nasty little encounter that probably pays off more in terms of 'life experience' than it does in actual material reward. It's worth noting that the variety in the encounters is underscored by the map's very laissez-faire progression style, which in this case appears to allow the player to freely choose which part of the temple to explore at any given time from the outset--no real gating of encounters into early/late tiers, or anything like that, the only real restriction being that you're locked into many of the encounters once you've begun them until a resolution is reached.

As aforementioned, another new enemy debuts here, that being Valiant's version of the pyrodemon. I was a little surprised to see the first pair of them stomping into the first battle, and more than a little surprised to find they fell so quickly to my SSG. I've seen this enemy turn up in a number of ZDoom projects (most notably Stronghold), and typically it is extremely dangerous, possessing highly lethal and often counterintuitive attack patterns and a goodly amount of HP, making it essentially a boss-tier enemy. It seems that in Valiant, by contrast, they've been set up as more of a 'glass cannon' sort of mid-tier enemy, with quick multi-hit attacks that are tricky to fully evade even at mid-range, and presumably devastating should you happen to absorb the full effect of one. These potent offensive capabilities are balanced by average (e.g. noble-class) footspeed and a fairly modest amount of HP, which seems to be about on the level of a hell knight (presumably the enemy they're functionally replacing), if not slightly less, even. They aren't particularly formidable in most of the fights here (although the guy who appeared in the aforementioned claustrophobic megasphere setpiece had me pissing my diddies just a little, I admit), but it will be interesting to see how their usage develops and how they can contribute to larger/more complex scenarios in later maps. For now, I find I'm kind of thinking of them as the ying to the revenants' yang--a difficult to evade but not usually terribly damaging attack, in contrast to the skelly's slow, manipulable, but very painful projectiles, a priority target who likely won't be the FIRST priority, depending on the specific situation, of course.

Anyway, I quite liked this one. I found most of the battles entertaining, and I much prefer the more fleshed-out and 'location-based' nature of the setting vs. many of the early anonymous industrial base vignettes, particularly the cinematic intro with the coven of viles chasing you through the aether as you beeline for the temple.

[scifista42]

Map10 - “Candlecove”

Cool map with a strong BTSX E2 vibe. Beautiful looking and very thematically consistent, maybe a little too much, but I didn't actually mind it - I was impressed. Gameplay was varied enough and overally fun. Once again, great usage of Aracnorbs - efficient yet non-abusive, and I've enjoyed having many possibilities to fight them, including running away / taking cover. Great usage of Archviles and Pyro Knights as well. I feel that the more I play, the more I like the new enemies. This map also featured an interesting and actually threatening Cyberdemon fight - in a reasonably confined hole, so that I needed to watch out for splash damage, the hole also looked great, which helped to make the fight satisfactory. The obscured teleports leading to the secret arena with a megasphere were an interesting gimmick to hide a secret. All in all, I liked this map.

[NuclearPotato]

MAP09 - 14 Angrier Archviles

JEEZUS THIS LEVEL. As everyone points out, very set-piece based. Really digging the ruined temple theme of this level. The blue key area seemed a lot more fleshed out than the rest of the map though, which seemed a bit odd to me. Still, the difficulty continues to increase, which doesn't leave much time for sightseeing. I must have reloaded about a dozen times just on the opening room of the temple. The pyro knights were pretty cool, and surprisingly less bullet resilient compared to the usual Hell Knight/Baron fare.

90% kills, 1/2 secrets

[mouldy]

Map09 - “14 Angrier Archviles”

A selection of fight puzzles, nicely decorated in medieval castle type setting. Some of the battles are a bit too trial and error for my taste, in particular the one with the rising and falling pillars which needed blind luck on my part to get through. I guess thats how it is with archviles, you aren't even allowed one mistake a lot of the time, and when there are a few you have to hope they feel kind, or at least know they are coming. Anyway, much dying and saving for me here.

Map10 - “Candlecove”

Gorgeous looking map, very atmospheric. Seems like the gameplay has changed a bit since I last played it, there was a chaingunner/invisibility challenge before which I remember moaning about. I much prefer how it is now, feels like you have a lot more choice of how to tackle the ravine. There is a teleport switch that puts you on some random rocky shelf which i couldn't really figure out, I'm assuming that is connected with one of the secrets. Some interesting battles with the hurty floor. A lot of fights in these maps tend to kill me very fast when they go wrong, usually if one of those flame throwing barons are involved at close range, so I was thankful for the massive amounts of health lying around. One weird bit that sticks out for me is the point blank cyber fight, which feels a bit restrictive and out of place. Anyway, a nice map with memorable scenery.

[Tristan]

MAP08: Bushwacked
| Kills: 73/77 | Items: 83/104 | Secrets: 0/1 | Time: 05:43 / 44:33 | Deaths: 0 |

Gez mentioned this when I said I was finding Valiant difficult, so I was surprised when this turned out to be actually quite easy. Episode 2 brings a nice new visual theme, and the only part I could see as being particularly dangerous was the start area, with the imps on all sides. The fight at the end of the map lost a lot of its threat from the fact there's not one, but two megaspheres available, which seemed like overkill to me, given the opposition was really not that heavy. I was ready to complain about the narrow walkway when I first saw it, but it gave me no trouble, and I actually quite enjoyed using the rocket launcher there. Good opener for the new episode.

8/10

MAP09: 14 Angrier Archviles
| Kills: 131/154 | Items: 25/36 | Secrets: 1/2 | Time: 13:32 / 58:05 | Deaths: 0 |

Now there's a worrying level title for someone who hates those yellow bastards. But this was nothing like what I expected. The start sequence was amazing, I love how you make the journey through the big abandoned canyon with them appearing then immediately disappearing again, a more atmospheric music track would have made this map pretty damn unsettling with this mechanic being used. The pyro demons are introduced in a similar fashion, which hails back to E1M8 in a way. The gothic structure where they make that first brief appearance is very well designed, nice use of faked-slope textures. I also appreciate the arch-viles being spread out throughout the level, rather than being thrown at the player in one go. Combat wasn't necessarily easy throughout the level, but remained fun regardless. The blue key seemed rather difficult to get to, after a few failed straferuns and even failing to get it with SR50, I wondered if there were something I was supposed to do instead, particularly with that weird little plinth thing that seemed to serve only as decoration. Rather minor complaint though.

I don't think hell knights and barons are very fun to fight, so to have the pyro demon replacing the former is a breath of fresh air to Doom's gameplay. The Hell Knight was always the mid-tier counterpart to the imp, and in keeping with the turbo-charged imps in this WAD, the same is done for the Hell Knight. I forget what replaced the baron, but I'll find out eventually of course.

So yeah, cool idea behind this map, and it's executed very well, though I wonder how it fares for replayability. The appearing/disappearing act by the archviles was impressive, threatening and I guess you could say paranoia-inducing too, but I'm doubtful it would hold up at all on subsequent playthroughs, as it seems to rely on surprise factor. Still one of my favourite maps in Valiant so far though.

9/10

MAP10: Candlecove
| Kills: 150/156 | Items: 45/55 | Secrets: 0/2 | Time: 11:35 / 01:09:40 | Deaths: 9 |

True to its name, this map takes place in a huge cave system lit by an equally huge number of torches. A very nice looking map. I'm really glad I started making use of mid-level saves here, because this was more difficult than anything Valiant has put the player through so far. It starts off pretty frantic, but with just enough health to get by, and the way that the pathway is littered with individual rockets is like the map is almost begging for you to use the rocket launcher, which is definitely a fun way to tackle to fight.
The arch-vile that teleports in after taking the red key was very effective, and I went down a few times to that.

My opinion of the map was rather marred though by the cyberdemon fight. I understand that a good cyberdemon fight is one where you can't simply circlestrafe, but I don't believe that locking the player in a tiny cramped space with it is the way to deal with that. I lucked out on what I think was my fifth attempt at it, which is fortunate, as I was getting ready to either iddqd out of it or mark the map as a DNF. Given that I didn't like MAP07's cyberdemon either, I hope this isn't what all of the Cyber fights in Valiant are like.

While I was playing this, I only just realised that arachnorbs are very similar to Duke3D's Octabrains. Just thought I'd mention that :P
Despite that rather large annoyance with the cyberdemon, I really quite liked this map. I'm definitely liking E2 more than E1 in both visuals and gameplay.

8/10

[scifista42]

Random question: Does MAP09 use REJECT table manipulation trickery to prevent the archviles from stopping in place and attacking the player on the starting journey?

[Memfis]

No, I was attacked by them at least two times.

[Zulk RS]

MAP05: The Aggrovator

Kills: 100%
Items: 100%
Secrets: 0%

Deaths: 8 (All by ambushes and unexpected enemy hordes)

Nothing that different from the other maps. Plenty of health and armor here.

[purist]

Playing this in GZDoom to take advantage of all the features and have music, since this dos not work on my PRBoom+ anymore. Playing in HM, continuously as I usually do and using saves to help me keep up with everyone better than normal. I'm expecting superb level design, cool gameplay tweaks and awesome visuals, so no pressure Skillsaw :-p

1

Sweet looking base right off the bat reminiscent of BTSX. A little longer and more challenging than your average MAP01 and Skillsaw wastes no time showing off some of his new toys. I can already see we're going to be frequently fighting on all angles, which is a good thing. The layout and connectivity is spot on as you will expect and the gameplay changes work great. The imp pods were really cool.

2

A compact and slightly less forgiving map that introduces the chaingun. I jumped into the water trap on 35% health and thought I'd struggle to get through it until I hit fire with that souped up beast! My only worry is that Skillsaw will be using this as an excuse to up the difficulty.

3

An arena type map with all the action happening in one area on platforms at varying levels. The pressure starts immediately and never really builds to the same intensity again. No matter, this is another fun map which would be fun to bolt around in even if there were no monsters at all.

4

This one starts a bit different, with the titular stroll through nice natural scenery and mostly front facing opposition. The shit soon hits the fan when flipping a switch though and the whole area becomes a battlefield. The areas after this are quite standard, though I did record one death to a misjudged revenant rocket.

5

The grey tech and green vine theme ends at about the right time. I forgot to mention the cool floating arachnos or the even cooler arachnatrons that spawn them on death, but they're both used here to great affect. The focal point of this level is the huge bridge that raises part way through and the final firefight. I recently asked about levels that do repopulation well and whilst I had gimmick maps in mind Skillsaw routinely does this with style in this map set.

6

An awesome cityscape and another treble key hunt level. Each key is guarded by a setpiece, which feel more seperate than the area invasion style traps in previously levels showing Skillsaw's ability to mix it up. I found the red key last and the horde of arachnorbs was a really cinematic battle surrounded by the tall buildings even though you can outrun trouble without risk.

I've heard a bit about MAP07 and I'm tempted to play it but I'll save it for next time and give myself something to look forward to.

[cannonball]

Map08 - “Bushwacked”
Interesting to see a hub-spoke map in this set, that said the entire map is interwoven together nicely enough to make it feel more than a set of areas branching off the central start point. The difficulty is tricky without it being too annoying, the hardest part is the end where the pain elements and the arachnorbs can cause a nuisance, otherwise a decent map.

Map09 - “14 Angrier Archviles”
Nice introduction here, the level itself is by far the hardest so far, so very devious traps which kicked my ass several times. Nothing rage inducing though which is a good thing. Another good map.