Bethesda E3 Conference - DOOM4 Unveiling

[TheMightyHeracross]

Am I the only one who likes the new Cyberdemon? :(

[Archi]

wow halo 6 nice

[Antroid]

TheMightyHeracross said:

Am I the only one who likes the new Cyberdemon? :(

I've definitely seen someone somewhere liking him as well. Maybe not in this thread. I'm sure a lot of people don't really have a problem with him.

[AvalonLT]

{Forgive me for my bad english}
Ok, huge doom fan here. Played doom 1/2 since 1997, played doom 3, played many doom wads, started to create doom levels myself. So when i watched demo i instantly thought how the game will stand after everyone will beat campaign. First general impresions:
Good
- Graphics are not impresive but ok, if engine will keep 60 fps i'm fine.
- Hell art design was good, i'm glad they didn't went with generic rock and fire option.
- No weapon limit
- simple map editor
Bad
- Enemies looked more like doom 3 than doom 2. The problem is they are not very discting from one another. All have grey, diferent shaped skin. Baron is just bigger version of imp. I think more cartoonish/colouful slyte wood look better than "realistic"
- Music was strange. Maybe too early to judge.
- linear level design.
- few enemies, horde mode in bigger encounters to avoid more enemies.

Ok now main disapointment. Basicly i'll explay why probably no one care about doom 4 after people beat campaign. I thing the main difference between doom and modern shooters is that modern shooters is not only linear in level design but you engage anemies in specific spots, than game stops and throws you 2-6 enemies at once, when "door opens" and you procced to next encounter. After few encounters you arive at "arena", there game should throw you 20 enemies, but unfortunately game engine or game mechanics wont allow to take more than single digit enemies at once. So again 4 enemies teleports in arena, then another 4, and maybe 6 at the end. This i saw in doom 4 demo. And this is main reason why modern shooters mechanicly sucks. Well practicly all non open world (eg fallout, skyrim) action games using this mechanic, so why people still ejoy these games.

This game design approach suits games that are heavy on story, developers create interesting enviroments that changes after hour of gameplay, put many scripted scenes, characters engage in well done cut sceenes and so on. And i enjoy many of these games because they have good characters, plot, graphics etc (for egz mass effect, bioshock infinite). These usualy last 8-10 hours, because after that time its hard to keep contantly throwing new enemies, new locations, create many costly bombastic explosions etc.

And finally what sort of thing people hate most about these games? A dlc with horde mode. Because these dlc shows how weak mechanicaly are these games are(remember bioshock, mass effect dlc). Ok so Id have to choose which game they want to make. A game like wolfenstein new order, which is good while it lasts, and then everyone forgets after couple of months, or a game which first priority is game mechanics and on top of that people will spent another 20 years creating mods for this game. Doom 3 was a game that abandoned game mecahnics that made doom 2 legendary game. From e3 demo looks like doom 4 heading to same direction, but everything is not so bad.

First there will be simple game editor which encourage map making and publishing. It looked liked it had more fuctions that very simple portal 2 map maker. So maybe community will make mods that will be more like doom 2. Lets hope that game engine supports dozens or better hundrets of enemies, so we can make doom 2 style slougher maps. How engine will operate with large number of enemies is a big concern to everyone which want to make old school style maps. This also effects how difficulty will function. Because on of the most anoying things in today games that with increase of difficulty enemies become bullet sponges and do crazy amounts of damage.

Doom 4 is shooter game not tactical combat simulator, you constantly take damage and that is ok. It drives me crazy when in doom 3 on hardest difficulty basic zombie with pistol takes a third of your health and can kill you in 3 shots. And i think with that simple editor you can't change how difficulty funtions. So these desicions will form opinions of many people to make maps. Well of course we hope that id release real game editor later, with whom we will be able mod all apects of game. But i think simple decisions will affect game greatly in the long run. If doom 2 difficulty functioned like doom 3, people designed maps in very different fashion. One could say map makers could encourage people use second difficulty and add more enemies, but if developers didnt create game that way its hard for players think other way.

Locking Door with key cards is another same issue. We need these things from the beggining. So map editor is good idea, especialy if it enables quick map creation and after that we can tweak those maps in real editor would be awsome. Ok, now i'm sure how i feel about enemies droping health, ammo etc. Well we need to have balance here i think. If enemies drop small health, ammo packs thats probably ok, but larger packs should be picked up in the level itself. To sum it up, game looks better than doom 3, but i have strong doubts that we play doom 4 intead of doom 2 in the long run. I have more thoughts, but it's enough for now :)

[IWantYourOvaries]

Guys, how does this look cartoonish seriously...?

[LANEGRACABRA]

The Cyberdemon design sort of grew on me. We all knew it looked bit Diablo3-ish from the 2014 trailer. I hope we can see it die in a really gory way, perhaps multiple possible ways. I'm glad that he's NOT a final boss in the game. Are we even 100% sure thats the Cyberdemon and not a cybernetic Baron of Hell? I liked how his face is all over that hell level in the #2 gameplay demo-

[TheEndOfUs]

Time only slows down when you use the weapon wheel, not when quick-switching. Win-win. Whats up with the plasma rifle though??

[qdash]

Stop whining and look at new Doom again. New Doom is fkn AWESOME! >:E Difficult was very easy and player is freakin' noob, but this trailer is something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteAPGprDJk

[gaspe]

IWantYourOvaries said:

Guys, how does this look cartoonish seriously...?

Imo it looks like it would fit better in a RPG or a MOBA.

[Koko Ricky]

I'm liking everything I'm seeing. There's a lot of brown, but not too much. They spice up the color palette well enough and it actually is really similar to the Doom classic palette. The spillout armor/health makes sense, you don't need to have ammo and shit placed everywhere, especially Hell. Speaking of which, it looked good, it's much more open and looks like it'll be a lot of fun to explore. I saw a reference to one of the classic demon door textures. The UAC stuff looks slick as well. It all looks MUCH bigger and MUCH more open than Doom 3. Very happy about that.

[DooM_RO]

The techbase is not brown at all. I see lots of orange and red.

Don't know why people say it's linear. That catwalk just before the first ambush seems to lead to an optional area/alternative route and the route right after the first ambush seems to be optional. VAGUELY reminds me of E1M2.

Only thing that bothers me is the complete imbalance of Health and Ammo. Imps should give 5 health back and higher tier enemies should give 15, MAYBE 20 but not fucking 30 for an imp or 80 for a baron.

Ah yes, and some of the weapons are sorta...weak. I really like the plasma gun for some reason but the Shotguns could use a little more oomph.

[Jaxxoon R]

So there's a lot of different feels going on here from everyone. It's interesting.

Personally I'm on the fence about the cyberdemon, it looks odd being so fantastical next to all the dissected aliens that are the imps and zombiemen, but at the same time I'm just glad I can tell what it even is, unlike the Doom 3 cyberdemon.

[DooM_RO]

I don't know what to feel...On one hand I am super optimistic about it and Id really seems to give their best but on the other hand...something feels off about the game and I don't know what it is.

Maybe it's because it's pretty different from the Doom 4 I've been building in my head.

[Phml]

I'm actually glad that they are not close minded and stuck in 1993.

Out of all the delusional passive aggressive comments this one takes the cake. Let's be serious for a second. Doom-style shooters had a shelf life of a few years, from 1993 to about 2000-2001; and even at the time you could argue the linear corridor scripted FPS took a significant share of the market, starting as soon as Half-Life in 1996.

On the other hand this slow-paced walk forward and shoot two enemies at a time type of FPS has been the norm for about a dozen years. That's every AAA FPS save for the odd open-world here and there.

There is nothing open-minded about following a trend that is as old as the new generation of gamers, and being stuck in the worst of 2003 shouldn't be lauded as an improvement over sticking to the best of 1993.

If you want to throw anything non-superficial about Doom for the sake of innovation, at least you should have the courage to ask for actual innovation. We've got voxel engines building endless 3D procedural worlds with dynamic destruction (as seen in EQ Next), that could be a fun direction for Doom to take rather than the same corridor bullshit we've seen for a decade.

But for that matter, even within the context of corridor FPS what we've seen of Doom 4 so far looks worse than Bulletstorm (a 2011 game!) in every possible aspect.

Here's one thing still stuck in 1993. This line of reasoning arguing anyone who reacts badly to something new does so solely because it's new. This line of reasoning that says "new is always better". Star Wars prequels happened, and fanboys need to get over themselves. Having exigences of quality has nothing to do with fear of change. And, again, there's a much stronger case to be made for those who want Call of Duty Modern Warfare with a Doom reskin as the ones afraid of change.

[Reiken]

Phml said:

...
Here's one thing still stuck in 1993. This line of reasoning arguing anyone who reacts badly to something new does so solely because it's new...

(+ rest of post)

Well said.

[Gruson]

I'm already tired of the chainsaw brutal kills. The game is a failure already. Looks and plays like every other FPS game. None of the original Doom charm is there. Monster design is the biggest disappointment.

[LANEGRACABRA]

Hey did you guys see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteAPGprDJk

[Reiken]

Sudden thoughts on chainsaw, how I think it could work (but does not appear to:)
The animations are clearly better than a "holding down + forward" animation loop and waiting for the enemy to die, but the grunts take too long to die from it. I propose:
-grunts killed in .5 seconds or so, maybe less; killing 20~ jams up the chainsaw and renders it worthless (chainsaw becomes a multi-stage consumable)

-chainsaw 'minigame' stays in and becomes an alternate means of dispatching larger foes, kind of like a lockpicking mini-game, but not a game-pauser..

-different types of large monsters would have different (and not-indicated) vital spots you have to cut toward and through to keep it stun-locked and eventually kill with. With experience, you can learn and memorize how to carve up a cyber, etc. as an amusing finisher to a room clearing. Saw jams up on completion/failure.

Man, why is this so hard for corporate studios?

[Naitguolf]

Well, its pretty clear they missed one very special feature from DooM 1/2.

They said only three:

Lots of monsters
Big fucking guns
Fast gameplay

... and what about exploration? ----> That's very VERY important!!! No just a simple corridor... and that's what I fear the most... I always spent time exploring the map, looking for secrets... specially if you feel that the map is good!

[Marnetmar]

I saw tons of other paths in that demo. Just because the player didn't take them doesn't mean they didn't exist, Jesus Christ.

[DooM_RO]

Marnetmar said:

I saw tons of other paths in that demo. Just because the player didn't take them doesn't mean they didn't exist, Jesus Christ.

Yeah, think about it for a second. Consider it's 1992 and it's E3. Id are playing through E1M2 and are taking the most obvious route possible, that being key, door, lift, exit. I know that many of you play the levels on auto play (including me) but try playing them without finding secrets or extra stuff and you'll get something pretty similar to the reveal trailer. AFAIK, the Techbase was the second level. Now ask yourselves this: How many monsters did it present, how much interesting gameplay did it have (compared to later levels, Doom 2 and Megawads.) and how is the level when played without exploration?

There are going to be tons of interviews beginning with tommorow and we might find out more about the level design/gameplay.

P.S Is the word auto play censored on this forum or something?

[Sandstormer]

Phml said:

Out of all the delusional passive aggressive comments this one takes the cake. Let's be serious for a second. Doom-style shooters had a shelf life of a few years, from 1993 to about 2000-2001; and even at the time you could argue the linear corridor scripted FPS took a significant share of the market, starting as soon as Half-Life in 1996.

On the other hand this slow-paced walk forward and shoot two enemies at a time type of FPS has been the norm for about a dozen years. That's every AAA FPS save for the odd open-world here and there.

There is nothing open-minded about following a trend that is as old as the new generation of gamers, and being stuck in the worst of 2003 shouldn't be lauded as an improvement over sticking to the best of 1993.

If you want to throw anything non-superficial about Doom for the sake of innovation, at least you should have the courage to ask for actual innovation. We've got voxel engines building endless 3D procedural worlds with dynamic destruction (as seen in EQ Next), that could be a fun direction for Doom to take rather than the same corridor bullshit we've seen for a decade.

But for that matter, even within the context of corridor FPS what we've seen of Doom 4 so far looks worse than Bulletstorm (a 2011 game!) in every possible aspect.

Ok, show me where in my post that I mentioned anything about COD or COD style FPS? At no point did I say that I want Doom to fucking be like COD or the millions of COD clones out there. The statement was a reference to the fact that they are willing to add a few new things to spice up the gameplay like fatalities, double jumping, and the ability to climb stuff. They didn't say, "Oh no, we can't add that because it wasn't in vanilla." Don't think for one second that I'm defending the bog standard COD style cookie cutter BS that currently permeates the market. No, my statement alludes to the fact that they are trying out new things with this latest entry instead of simply mailing it in and relying on the Doom name to sell the game.

Here's one thing still stuck in 1993. This line of reasoning arguing anyone who reacts badly to something new does so solely because it's new. This line of reasoning that says "new is always better". Star Wars prequels happened, and fanboys need to get over themselves. Having exigences of quality has nothing to do with fear of change. And, again, there's a much stronger case to be made for those who want Call of Duty Modern Warfare with a Doom reskin as the ones afraid of change.

Stop assuming. In multiple posts on this forum I have reiterated the fact that I prefer classic Doom over the more modern variations, so you'll have to apply that stereotype to someone else. The line of reasoning is something that you are blindly attributing to me that clearly isn't there (why would I play and mod a game from 1993 if I preferred modern style? and for the record, I hate COD). Again, where in my post did I state that anyone who reacts badly to something new is doing it just because it is new? I didn't even mention anything about anyone reacting badly to begin with. A general statement praising the fact that they are willing to add a few new things to the latest game that weren't in the old school game instead of just simply mailing it in and relying on the name "Doom" to sell the game, and you launch into some weird ass rant about Call of Duty (I hate even typing that name), the gaming market circa 1993-2001, and people being afraid of change. That points at a much deeper issue within you, not me.

[Sandstormer]

TheEndOfUs said:

Time only slows down when you use the weapon wheel, not when quick-switching. Win-win. Whats up with the plasma rifle though??

That's awesome, and it's good to know. I'm still trying to figure out the plasma rifle situation, myself.

[LANEGRACABRA]

When he first equips the plasma rifle, the HUD says "stun shot" in the lower right corner. I dont know if he turned it off but the plasma rifle seemed to stagger the enemies alot.

Those gun troops seem to be possessed UAC personnel mutated into their armor and weapon, I'd preferred their faces be more human but twisted. I don't get the laser beams, are these guys even marines?

People complaining that this is a corridor shooter, how else do you think fighting inside industrial complexes and facilities would play out?

[DooM_RO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPpamFLrLw

Pay attention at 16:24!!!

[40oz]

When you're watching someone who is really good and talented play a game, they often find some sort of game exploit in order to move faster and do more damage etc. etc.

In quake, there's rocket/grenade jumping, half life had bunny hopping, and Doom has strafefunning and glides. I can only hope that some day video game designers could anticipate this so things like Doom 4s violent instakill melee executions, would require a complex sequence of actions to perform rather than just standing next to it and pressing the "use" button. It seems like the most excitement you're going to get from the game comes from choreographed actions that are are reserved for specific events. The actual part of the game that the players control seem very lackluster in comparison.

[Blastfrog]

el blanko

[GuyMcBrofist]

As hyped as anyone else is for this game, I listened to a meditation tape before watching to try and be as clear minded and nonjudgmental as possible. I mostly viewed the game as it stands on its own, without comparing it to other games or even its predecessors. Here are my first impressions from the first bit:

Starting off the Doomguy is looking at his helmet and has a pretty husky looking suit on. He puts the helmet on, a HUD boots up and eliminates the helmet's obstruction of his view. Alright, cool. The door opens up and I move out into some kind of a metal working plant. Wow, cool! There are drones flying around making noises and everything is lit up by all the molten steel.

I start moving. Oh, cool, I can double jump. Alright, I'm wearing a military exoskeleton in the future, I can dig it. I keep moving. Wow this looks cool. A monster screams. At this point I can't help but notice that an analog stick is being used and that the person playing this is moving in such a way as to do a demonstration. Oh well, I can mostly ignore it.

I approach the monsters and the fighting begins. The shotgun feels punchy. I execute the first guy and feel the crowd's reaction, nice. I pump some lead into a couple others while I take a fireball to the face, jump on a box, blast another one while dodging a fireball, jump down and move over to another part of the room to blow away one guy while executing the next. Sweet! I'm totally playing Doom right now! Did I just dislocate that dude's hip to smash his face in with his foot? Brutal Doom crosses my mind (never played it), along with its popularity and rumors that it influenced the game's design. Fuck that. For fighting that's this close to the enemy you need to have CQC, and a man with a powered exoskeleton and way too much adrenaline will do things like that. I quickly forget about Brutal Doom and other people.

The fighting dies off to some suspension, I quickly start heading towards the next door, and notice light reflecting off of water puddles on the floor. Wow that looks good. If I had any control over this I would be going around looking at and listening to everything for at least five minutes. I go through the door, see some kind of scripted sequence, get into some more action, blow up some barrels, and then pick up some health drops! I had heard about monsters dropping pickups, wasn't so sure how to feel about them, but this doesn't seem so bad. There will surely be fewer of them on the harder difficulties, where I like to play.

The initial rush begins to subside, but I'm still pumped. The super shotty gets introduced to some fanfare, where it is quickly used to gib an enemy. The way it gibbed him looks a little off, but the game isn't finished so whatever. I shoot some more baddies and pick up some more drops, as well as some ammo placed in the level. I think I got the hang of this. It looks like I killed that Imp by shooting the floor next to him. Really, ID? You guys left that in? I fight my way up a half destroyed stairwell, blow away some more bad guys, kick an Imp over a railing, and take some cover. Those guys have lasers, interesting. Did I just change an attachment on my gun? Were those two infighting? It's the plasma rifle! Eat my hot plasma! I just ripped that thing's jaw out! Blam blam blam blam! Fighting is over, the handprint sequence happens. I notice during the echo replay that it's the hellknight from Doom 3, okay I guess. I use the dude's hand and move through the door, blow away more guys with the heavy assault rifle (nice) and then get the chainsaw!

So we're all gawking at the chainsaw executions when I can't help but notice something, something I noticed with some of the executions before. I understand that this must be extremely difficult for the developer's to address, but there's a sort of a gap in the animation. It's like there's a 'jump' between not doing an execution to doing one. It's a little nitpick I have that I've seen in other games, but what can you do? Oh well, it still looks pretty awesome. The fighting finishes up and the revenant does an execution on the player.

I really like what I see, and I'm excited to get my hands on the game. Having such a small look only raises questions for me. How will the difficulty scale? Most of the former humans seemed rather benign, can they be more aggressive and accurate? Will there be a Nightmare mode that does something different like in the other three games? Like others have mentioned, there seem to be a good amount of paths other than the one taken in the demo. If I were to run past packs of enemies, will they try to follow me? Would the entire level eventually turn into me roaming about while all the monsters are trying to hunt me down (like in Doom 1 and 2)? The handprint was fun, how about keycards? Secrets? Par times?

Snapmap looks like it has lots of potential, and the guy said during the post interview that he's anxious to do a presentation on it because of how much you can do with it. Obviously there's lots of layout and level logic that you can change. But I wonder how much you can do with certain mechanics. Could you remove item drops from monsters to have health and ammo scattered around your level instead?

I'm looking forward to seeing more.

[Obsidian]

IWantYourOvaries said:

This is a beautiful username and I want it.

[The Civ]

DooM_RO said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPpamFLrLw

Pay attention at 16:24!!!

Sorry, what am I exactly looking for?
I noticed the Door is a remake of the good old hell ones from Doom 1/2, but what else?