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GoatLord

Is there a way Doom 64 could have been better?

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I mean obviously, yeah, but when we think of some of its limitations, like missing animation, missing monsters, a lack of dynamic lighting on weapons/explosions, the somewhat less professional art style, the frequently monochromatic textures and the lack of multiplayer, what could have been done about this? Is it possible that optimizations could have overcome these issues? Is it possible that a later release that took advantage of the expansion pack could have helped?

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I love Doom 64, it's one of my favorites. Though I wish all the monsters could have been included, but I understand there were limitations. That makes me wonder if there is any old concept art of said monsters out there?

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If I recall correctly, it was limited budget for the cartridge size that hurt Doom 64's monster count, while RAM might have factored in to limit its amount of animations per thingy.

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They still added those turret things which would shoot homing projectiles almost like the Revenants fireball only they were explosive ball things covered with flames instead.

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Revenants' projectiles are similar, actually. I even assume those projectiles we see in Doom 64 originally belonged to Revenants.

-I do wish to have seen the remaining monsters included, but yes, limitations.
-How about a level during the daylight?

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Doomhuntress said:

fuck no. i'm glad there weren't any of those in Doom 64.

Remember that they were heavily rebalanced in PSX Doom, this is likely to have been carried over in some ways. It did with Lost Souls and their saner health values, at least.

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I would've killed for double the amount of levels to play through.
I really don't care too much about the missing monsters, but I just loved the level designs in Doom 64.

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I think the coolest highlight of Doom 64 were the hell levels. I really liked the stormy skies levels in particular.

I hope Doom 4 does something similar. Terror Core-Eye of the Storm has a good atmospheric vibe to them IMO.

jdagenet said:

I would've killed for double the amount of levels to play through.
I really don't care too much about the missing monsters, but I just loved the level designs in Doom 64.


The question is, would doubling the amount of maps to have in the game (if it was even possible to fit all of them back then) impact the quality of the default maps? They did have a deadline, I'm guessing.

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MeetyourUnmaker said:

The question is, would doubling the amount of maps to have in the game (if it was even possible to fit all of them back then) impact the quality of the default maps? They did have a deadline, I'm guessing.

I think if they had as much time as they needed to work on the game, I think the quality standard of the maps would've been the same (or possibly improved). Now if they had the same deadline but had an opportunity to implement additional levels then I think we would've seen a set of very boring and flat levels. Probably like Doom 2's map set.

I would've most definitely taken the map set we have now over a collection of cheap maps anyday.

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jdagenet said:

I think if they had as much time as they needed to work on the game, I think the quality standard of the maps would've been the same (or possibly improved). Now if they had the same deadline but had an opportunity to implement additional levels then I think we would've seen a set of very boring and flat levels. Probably like Doom 2's map set.

I would've most definitely taken the map set we have now over a collection of cheap maps anyday.


If it was the latter. If they could fit all of the maps they wanted at once and design them without worrying about deadlines and released the game a year or two later. The reception would have been even more lukewarm than it was. (a lot of people generally are impressed with it now because it has the best level design out of the previous Dooms)

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MeetyourUnmaker said:

What do you mean? Doom 64 is the best in the series. There's a lack of animations but that's Nintendo's fault as far as I know.


Doom 64 is certainly a great way to get your Doom on when you want to play an official title but are bored of Doom 1/2/Final. So I'm basically just saying, that in an ideal situation, how would the game have been improved? I'm going to go ahead and say that if it had had a 1998 release, while it would have been considered even more out of vogue with the progressive attitude that defined the FPS scene at the time, the expansion pack might have been able to add all the missing elements, plus maybe a few extra maps.

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Umm. It would help to identify which of the limitations are also problems. Fundamentally, Doom64 is a great game on its own. But neither agree nor disagree that having the extra monsters, more 'professional' artwork, dynamic lighting, a new engine, or more maps would make it an overall better game.

I've heard the turning sensitivity is weak on the n64 controller perhaps better controls would make it a better game considering how long it is.

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Jaxxoon R said:

Remember that they were heavily rebalanced in PSX Doom, this is likely to have been carried over in some ways. It did with Lost Souls and their saner health values, at least.

i forgot about that. still, i don't really see how adding Revenants to the game would have improved it, aside from a little bit of variety in shooting things. maybe it would've been useful for D64EX maps to have some more content to play with, i guess, but that's not talking about the base game.

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jdagenet said:

Now if they had the same deadline but had an opportunity to implement additional levels then I think we would've seen a set of very boring and flat levels. Probably like Doom 2's map set.

I realise that the word "flat" is used in a different sense here, but, sticking to the most common interpretation, the levels in Doom 64 are generally more simple and flat than in Doom 2. They're just purdier.

Doomhuntress said:

still, i don't really see how adding Revenants to the game would have improved it, aside from a little bit of variety in shooting things.

Doom 64 is plagued by lone hellknights around each corner. Variety among mid-tier monsters would've helped with that, at least. Besides, revenant is the ultimate tacticool monster of Doom. It can provide tacticoolness even in the most primitive layout. That's why it's loved so much by level designers striving for good gameplay.

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GoatLord said:

I mean obviously, yeah, but when we think of some of its limitations, like missing animation, missing monsters, a lack of dynamic lighting on weapons/explosions, the somewhat less professional art style, the frequently monochromatic textures and the lack of multiplayer, what could have been done about this? Is it possible that optimizations could have overcome these issues? Is it possible that a later release that took advantage of the expansion pack could have helped?


Using the original PC sound effects.

And Bobby Prince music. :p

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If it had the chaingunner and revenant, yes gameplay wise it would be.

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Did the sprites need to be bigger for the N64? What I mean is, could the original PC sprites have been used (or ones of similar size) and thereby allowed more sprites in the cart or did they need to use bigger sprites for some reason?

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I think DOOM 64 was able to fix the "round peg in the square hole" that PSX DOOM tried to be.

Loved DOOM PC midi's and sounds, and then I remember tossing in DOOM PSX on my playstation and it was atmospherically disproportionate with the level design and graphics. On one hand I had the action/rock-themed classic DOOM textures, enemies, weapons designs... but then I had Quake-like horror sounds and atmospheric ambient tracks. Each amazing in their own respect... BUT not so much tossed together. The audio just felt like it belonged to a different game than the graphics I was seeing. Maybe I was already too use to seeing it with rock midi's and the traditional pc sound fx, but it seemed out of sync.

Along comes DOOM 64, with hardware acceleration, mipmapped textures,enemies, atmospheric fog and lighting, much more dark and desolate than the PC version. BINGO! that's exactly where those PSX doom FX and atmospheric mark snow-inspured horror tunes fit perfectly. All done by Aubrey Hodges acoustics, of course.

So it was it's own beast... a true horror action FPS, not something else with a audio track of the sort slapped on it to try to make it into something the original PC version wasn't. Inspired by Quake's eeriness, but DOOM at heart.

I honestly think id software was influenced by DOOM 64 when making DOOM 3. As they appear to be influenced by Brutual DOOM on the new DOOM game.

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Da Werecat said:

I realise that the word "flat" is used in a different sense here, but, sticking to the most common interpretation, the levels in Doom 64 are generally more simple and flat than in Doom 2. They're just purdier.


tricks and traps

http://classicdoom.com/maps/d2secs/08.gif

tech center (similar concept)

http://www.classicdoom.com/d64maps/05-m4.gif

Tech center looks like it has a more complex layout to me.

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Buckshot said:

Along comes DOOM 64, with hardware acceleration, mipmapped textures,enemies, atmospheric fog and lighting, much more dark and desolate than the PC version. BINGO! that's exactly where those PSX doom FX and atmospheric mark snow-inspured horror tunes fit perfectly. All done by Aubrey Hodges acoustics, of course.

So it was it's own beast... a true horror action FPS, not something else with a audio track of the sort slapped on it to try to make it into something the original PC version wasn't. Inspired by Quake's eeriness, but DOOM at heart.

This is the best summary I've heard regarding PSX and N64 Doom. One was it's own game, the other was more or less a mod. I'll take originality over repackaged/rehashed assets.

I'd heard D64 was 'not great' for years, then when I got my own copy a year or two back, I thought it was awesome. It would have been the best FPS on the 64 I'd it had a 2 player mode. I was pretty underwhelmed by PSX Doom, though it is cool that it contained all of D1 and D2. If you didn't have a PC that made sure you got your moneys worth, so I can't be too hard on it.

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Doomkid said:

This is the best summary I've heard regarding PSX and N64 Doom. One was it's own game, the other was more or less a mod. I'll take originality over repackaged/rehashed assets.

I'd heard D64 was 'not great' for years, then when I got my own copy a year or two back, I thought it was awesome. It would have been the best FPS on the 64 I'd it had a 2 player mode. I was pretty underwhelmed by PSX Doom, though it is cool that it contained all of D1 and D2. If you didn't have a PC that made sure you got your moneys worth, so I can't be too hard on it.


well, on the circumstance that doom psx was retrofitted with new ambient tracks and sound fx, while doom 64 was designed around them.

goes to show what a difference it makes.

if I were to say which I prefer... pc doom is by far my favorite.... I loved doom 64... but psx doom waa in that weird, grey area in between. still not sure how I feel about that one.

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As much as I like PSX Doom I still pretty much prefer Doom 64 because it feels like a new game rather than just the original Dooms slapped together with ambient music and coloured lighting added and with many maps removed and reduced. Also Doom 64 was my first exposure to Doom, my childhood friend lent to me a copy of it once during 1997, I was like 10 years old then.

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